D&D 5E Where does "Willpower" lie... Wisdom? Charisma? or someplace else?

[Minigiant]

The only real conceptual challenge is a Dex/Int pairing

I always saw Dex/Int as speed and pinpoint accuracy on the physical and mental spheres.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't think it's officially "in" 5e; as you say, the term isn't really used in the books. And I think the goal for 5e design was that willpower was supposed to lie under the "player making decisions for the character" umbrella.

My personal interpretation tends to place Wisdom as the "Perception/Intuition" stat. I use a fair amount of homebrew spells and monster attacks that attack the overall concept of self, which I would roughly map to "Willpower", and these require Cha saves instead of Wis saves.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

It was always wisdom but 5e has added new elements to charisma, sense of self etc.

In truth if the game wanted to be more realistic in these areas, neuroscience could easily inform some game constructs such as executive functioning, memory and so on.

I am fine with the game as is however

 

[Seramus]

Both! 4E combined Wisdom and Charisma into a Will Defense, and I rather liked that approach. I've known extremely forceful people with tremendous willpower, but less wisdom and perception than your average sock. Likewise, I've known some rather shy people who still don't fall for your shenanigans, and have the ability to say "No" and stick with it.

• Will is your willpower in fighting against effects that try to affect your body or mind. Many physically and mentally harmful powers target your will, including mind control and domination effects. Add your Wisdom or Charisma modifier to this defense, whichever is higher.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Both! 4E combined Wisdom and Charisma into a Will Defense, and I rather liked that approach. I've known extremely forceful people with tremendous willpower, but less wisdom and perception than your average sock. Likewise, I've known some rather shy people who still don't fall for your shenanigans, and have the ability to say "No" and stick with it.

• Will is your willpower in fighting against effects that try to affect your body or mind. Many physically and mentally harmful powers target your will, including mind control and domination effects. Add your Wisdom or Charisma modifier to this defense, whichever is higher.

Actually, back in 3E we had Fortitude, Reflexes, and Will-- I liked those as the "saves" in preference to the abilities as saves.

 

[Stalker0]

Wisdom is willpower.

That said, charisma has also been beefed up to deal with aspects of the "soul" rather than the "mind", so you see charisma saves for a lot of soul based effects, ala Magic Jar

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wisdom is willpower.

That said, charisma has also been beefed up to deal with aspects of the "soul" rather than the "mind", so you see charisma saves for a lot of soul based effects, ala Magic Jar

Which is why we moved Clerics to Charisma-based casting like Paladins and Warlocks, instead of Wisdom.

 

[cbwjm]

Seems to me that willpower in DnD comes from all of the mental attributes, used to resist different things. Intelligence resists illusions and various psychic attacks, wisdom resists various mind-affecting abilities like mind control, and Charisma resists effects affecting the sense of self.

 

[Lanefan]

The title says it all.

In AD&D, it was part of Wisdom, but I wonder with the design of 5E, which does not include it either under Wisdom nor Charisma, where did it go???

From a 1e perspective: I saw it as part of Wisdom for ages; but relatively recently I've converted to seeing it as part of Charisma.

Part of the reason for this is Charisma in 1e needs all the help it can get and this seems a logical thing to give it; another part of the reason is that I've come to see Willpower as being somewhat tied to spiritual strength, meaning I can take a few things away from Constitution (e.g. resurrection survival chance) that affect the spirit rather than the physical body and also give those to Charisma.

 

[payn]

Both! 4E combined Wisdom and Charisma into a Will Defense, and I rather liked that approach. I've known extremely forceful people with tremendous willpower, but less wisdom and perception than your average sock. Likewise, I've known some rather shy people who still don't fall for your shenanigans, and have the ability to say "No" and stick with it.

• Will is your willpower in fighting against effects that try to affect your body or mind. Many physically and mentally harmful powers target your will, including mind control and domination effects. Add your Wisdom or Charisma modifier to this defense, whichever is higher.

I disliked this because it was a failsafe that you would likely have a poor or dump in one or the other stat. I believe it was a kneejerk reaction the cripplingly bad saves you could have in 3E. I like the 5E approach were any and all stats matter for saving. Well, in theory, it didn't wash out well in practice and some stats just remain after thoughts.