Well, with 8 open slots, we gotta dive into the back catalog for a bit.
I love artificers, personally, so we're gonna have to chalk that one up to aesthetic disagreement. But yea, Rogue definitely fits well into the DEX/CON/INT slot. In general, DEX/INT feel right for any skilled class, and with only 4 DEX/INT slots, competition gets tight. I'll slot Rogue in there and rethink Artificer; maybe it gets STR/CON/INT since a number of its subclasses fulfill that "tanky melee arcanist" niche.
Warden is like a cross between Barbarian and Druid, that can wild shape into elementals and plants to be more tanky. Super tough and survivable, one of the highlights of 4e design, by far. I can see Cleric as STR/CON/WIS, but Warden just fits in there perfectly, and Cleric is flexible.
Shifting Paladin to STR/CON/CHA, changing Bard/Rogue and Sorcerer/Warlock, and from your descriptions of Warden and Artificer I think STR/CON/INT and STR/CON/WIS works.
Current Arrays:
STR, CON, INT = Artificer ???, ???, ??? = Avenger
STR, DEX, CON = Barbarian DEX, WIS, CHA = Bard
STR, WIS, CHA = Cleric
CON, INT, WIS = Druid (Your druid works)
STR, DEX, INT = Fighter
DEX, CON, WIS = Monk
STR, CON, CHA = Paladin
STR, DEX, WIS = Ranger DEX, INT, CHA = Rogue
CON, INT, CHA = Sorcerer
STR, CON, WIS = Warden CON, WIS, CHA = Warlock
INT, WIS, CHA = Wizard
Changes:
DEX, WIS, CHA = Bard
DEX, INT, CHA = Rogue
This focuses Rogues for both Arcana and Investigation, along with CHA for Deception, Intimidation, and Persuasion.
Also, WIS works well for Bards with things like Insight, Perception, and Survival IMO, better than INT really.
Switch your Sorcerer and Warlock, so...
CON, INT, CHA = Sorcerer
CON, WIS, CHA = Warlock
Leaving only the Avenger, which you didn't describe, so that'll have to wait to tomorrow. The current arrays available are:
STR, DEX, CHA - This would be a good second choice.
STR, INT, WIS STR, INT, CHA - This would be ideal if it fits Avenger?
DEX, CON, INT
DEX, CON, CHA
DEX, INT, WIS
If my count is correct for the other arrays, abilities have been used these many times (numbers are with Avenger in bold above):
STR - 7 (8)
DEX - 6
CON - 8
INT - 6 (7)
WIS - 8
CHA - 7 (8)
DEX is a bit lower, but as the god-stat that is ok IMO. Otherwise, it is about as balanced as we are likely to get. The remaining arrays could fit for other classes, such as the much bemoaned Warlord (IIRC?).
With the default as 15 x your Strength score, even a STR 8 allows you to carry 120 lbs. That is not often exceeded IME.
FWIW, we use the variant Encumbrance rules, so that STR 8 only allows you 40 lbs., which is much better IMO, and helps prevent dumping STR. In fact, in over two years of playing 5E, only one PC has every had even a STR 9 (which was my female High Elf Cleric/Rogue/Wizard). Most have STR 12 if possible.
I want ability scores to mean more, and be a better simulator. They used to be more representative, and that was what was intended when they were created. But they mean less every edition, and WotC clearly likes it that way. I'm getting tired of fighting the wind, especially when I have material right now and upcoming from 3rd party publishers that does what I want. If that's how it's going to be, just go whole hog and take them out. I already have what I need from WotC anyway.
The concept of a dump stat was not invented with 5e. Ability scores matter much more in wotc editions and are much more central to the game compared to Ad&d and basic. Both because modifiers are linear (as opposed to being on a bell curve) and because ability scores are more central to the game (affecting things like to-hit, saves, save dc, and the like in a way they never did in ad&d). Racial ability score modifications were also fairly minimal, though the caps could be more significant.
Compared to that, ability scores and the proficiency bonus are absolutely central to almost every facet of 5e design. Almost every single roll you make in the game requires you to reference your ability scores. This is arguably the "killer app" of wotc design, a unified mechanic.
Unless by "used to be more representative," you are thinking of 3e and pathfinder. But the big changes between 3e and 5e would be bounded accuracy, ability score caps at 20 for everyone, and a smaller list of skills.
I agree for the most part. I don't mind ability scores playing a part, but in 5E the balance it too equal IMO.
Proficiency bonus is +2 to +6, while ability modifiers are (generally) -1 to +5. That means at best, proficiency barely beats out ability modifiers for impact on the rolls. In my view, this is just wrong. Experience should definitely trump ability scores.
So, we changed proficiency bonus to +2 to +8 and ability scores cap (generally) at +4, making proficiency count as much as double ability modifier. Having a strong ability modifier will help a lot in the beginning, but its impact counts for less and less as you gain levels.
FWIW, at one point we had proficiency going up to +12, while ability was capped at just +3.
Sure, I could get behind that.
And that, too.
Or someone might decide those pairings better fit one of the established classes. Like, I really wanted to make Druids CON/WIS but that was already given to Rangers, so maybe someone who wanted a spell-less Ranger would choose DEX/CON instead.
I agree that ability could be maxed at +4(18), but proficiency goes from +2 to +12.
You have to include expertise in this. Everyone can get a feat for 1 expertise, and most DMs will allow the feat to be taken multiple times or getting 2 expertise instead of 1 expertise plus 1 skill training.
So, now years into 5E and I want to see what peoples' experiences are with dump stats. I know the results probably won't be surprising, but hey, maybe they will be...?
In 5e definitely INT, with STR some way behind. Players often dump STR, but equally often live to regret it as Athletics checks are pretty common and important. Players can generally get away with dumping INT, and if they don't it's usually for roleplay reasons, especially if the DM tells them they have to roleplay INT 8 like an idiot.
With the default as 15 x your Strength score, even a STR 8 allows you to carry 120 lbs. That is not often exceeded IME.
FWIW, we use the variant Encumbrance rules, so that STR 8 only allows you 40 lbs., which is much better IMO, and helps prevent dumping STR. In fact, in over two years of playing 5E, only one PC has every had even a STR 9 (which was my female High Elf Cleric/Rogue/Wizard). Most have STR 12 if possible.
8 STR(I have it now with my current sorcerer) only works if you have no armor or light armor.
Half plate+shield and a few weapons, you are at 70-80lb just from basic armament.
Add in ropes, grappling hooks, various tools, not to mention that food and water wights somewhat if you want to have few days worth in reserve.
So, I agree with that you should aim for 12 STR in you are a martial character.
Also Athletics checks are a thing, so...
DM should, make terrains in exploration and in combat somewhat challenging.
Even DCs between 5 and 10, will be a problem with party full of 8 STR or DEX characters.
Having DC 10 check for athletics/acrobatics that prevents you from moving in a round and with 5 or lower on check you suffer detriment, means that with -1 modifier you have 50% chance of not moving and 30% chance to suffer some small detriment(fall prone, roll down the hill 10 or 20ft, suffer 1d6 fall damage, drop weapons) every round while in that terrain.
8 STR(I have it now with my current sorcerer) only works if you have no armor or light armor.
Half plate+shield and a few weapons, you are at 70-80lb just from basic armament.
Add in ropes, grappling hooks, various tools, not to mention that food and water wights somewhat if you want to have few days worth in reserve.
A STR 8 allows you to carry 120 lb. before you are encumbered unless you use the variant rules (?).
Half-plate/ shield: 46lbs.
Gear: less than 50 lbs.
Weapons: up to 24 lbs. (I only used 13 lb. below.)
24 lb. of weapons is a lot! Unless you're totting around a heavy crossbow or polearm, I doubt you have that many weapons.
I went with Finesse weapons mostly assuming IF this PC was in combat, they rely on DEX. Since you have half-plate, I would guess this PC is not a martial and has a DEX 14 at best (unless you take the Medium Armor Master feat for better AC with DEX 16).
2 Daggers (#2)
Handaxe (#2)
Rapier (#3)
Longbow with 40 arrows (#6, 2 for bow, 4 for 40 arrows and two quivers)
So, my armor and "few weapons" is actually less than 60 lb., only half they weight I can carry with STR 8. With less than 50 lb. of gear, I actually have 10 lb. to spare before I would be encumbered.
Clearly, a STR 8 with the default rules is not a problem when it comes to carrying equipment.
Having DC 10 check for athletics/acrobatics that prevents you from moving in a round and with 5 or lower on check you suffer detriment, means that with -1 modifier you have 50% chance of not moving and 30% chance to suffer some small detriment(fall prone, roll down the hill 10 or 20ft, suffer 1d6 fall damage, drop weapons) every round while in that terrain.
Unfortunately there is really a lot of DM fiat when it comes to such things. For reference, here is the passage from the PHB:
A STR 8 (with no proficiency! IME if you have a dump stat, you are proficient in the skill to compensate...) the DC 10 is a 50/50. But failure, rolling 10 or lower means the PC would not move (no progress) or moves with setback (fell prone and had to get up, so only moved half).
If you like to play with the "fail by 5 or more" rule, which I also use, then the 30% does kick in. However, suffering damage would be more a kin to fumbling IMO, no just failing. And for tables who use fumbles that would be the 1 in 20 so just 5%.
Finally, depending on the scene, using ropes to tie each other together, etc. often allows for a DM to grant advantage on the check. So, now 50/50 becomes 75/25 towards success over failure. It also makes failing by 5 or more much less likely and "fumbling" just 1 in 400.
Anyway, so while people might dump STR or DEX, most of the time the player will compensate by taking proficiency in Athletics/ Acrobatics to offset the penalty and have a net bonus out of the gate.
Unless the DM purposefully exploits PCs who dump stats (shoving STR 8's to the ground), the game as designed doesn't really make having them a detriment at all, unfortunately.
