Where's the save for 'Harm' spell?

[EOL]

Not only have several designers recommended changing it, but in Dungeon 87, the adventure Glacier Season has a Sidebar which says "Harm, the broken spell".

It's pretty sad when even official WoTC publications talk about it that way.

It's your campaign you can play it however you want, but I won't be the first and certainly not the last to recommend adding a save or damage cap.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

My house rule #1 (of 7):

Change the save on harm to “Will partial” and add the following to the text description: “If the save is successful, the subject instead takes 1d8 damage per caster level; this cannot deal enough damage to drop them below 5 hp.”

It's a lot more than any typical cleric spell on a save, but that's to keep it in line with the insta-kill spells.

I like that. Hmm, maybe I'll change mine.....

--Bendable Spikey

 

[Kytess]

I like that. Hmm, maybe I'll change mine.....

I'm glad you like it - I put a lot of thought into it.

-- Kytess (=) CRGreathouse

 

[J'quan]

Having previously embroiled myself in debates about harm, I will avoid doing so for now. Suffice it to say that this is a very powerful spell, and you therefore may wish to house-rule it. I personally do so IMC.

My suggestions would be to implement one of the following:

1) Add a save for Will partial (target loses half its current hp)

OR

2) No save, but impose a damage cap of 15 hp/caster level

IMHO, either of the above would be a balanced "fix." I use the latter, and it works fine.

With option #2, it's still pretty much an instant-near-killer vs. most creatures. Minimum damage is 165hp. Followup with the quickened inflict, and *bam*.

I personally don't think there should be a change to the spell, unless you also want to start balancing the Heal spell too.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

IMC we initially house ruled it as per the Glacier Season module in Dungeon 87, even though we weren't high enough level to cast the spell let alone play that module. Now that the average level in the party is 11, we are seeing mega damage from the barbarian (96 in one round from full attack and criticals) and the rogue (multiple sneak attacks, improved critical, damage adds up fast). So we figured hey, why not let the cleric have Harm as written... and it hasn't caused a problem yet. I agree with Piratecat, the tricky part will be to keep the PCs from dropping like flies.

 

[TurboTroll]

I was playing some adventure from dragon magazine, in the adventure was note "creatures with lots of HP (like dragons) are able to make FORT save vs. harm", personally I think it's very good idea...

however we (players and DM) changed the spell in this way:

save: FORT
if save successful 4d6+1wounds/level
if fail causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points

SAVE THE DRAGONS! AND MODIFY THE HARM SPELL!

in other case dragons with touch AC like 9 (LoL) are very easy target for clerics....,

 

[hong]

Maybe we could kill two birds with one stone, and make (unmodified) Harm a ranger spell....

 

[dcollins]

Sagiro, for instance, has made Disintegrate affect only non-living objects; he's of the opinion that a spell of that level shouldn't negate Raising and Resurrection, and I'm not entirely sure I disagree with him.

Just wanted to point out that the language for resurrection (PH p. 246) specifically does allow recovery from the remains left behind by disintegrate.

 

[Piratecat]

Just wanted to point out that the language for resurrection (PH p. 246) specifically does allow recovery from the remains left behind by disintegrate.

Ah! Thank you. I was thinking you needed true resurrection, for some reason.

 

[Tiberius]

Ah! Thank you. I was thinking you needed true resurrection, for some reason.

Nah, that's only if you do something like follow up the Disintegrate with a Gust of Wind. That's one of my favorite combos when I don't feel like being merciful.

-Tiberius