Which choice is a better Rogue character build?

[Rogue problem]

I'm creating a two weapon fighting Rogue for a game using a 32 point build. I'm debating putting points in his abilities two different ways. The first:

Rogue A:

10 str
20 dex (18+2 elf)
12 con
14 int
10 wis
8 cha
weapon finess feat

OR

Rogue B:

14 str
18 dex
14 con
14 int
10 wis
8 charisma
no weapon finess feat

Which is better?
Rogue A would gain over Rogue B:

+3 to hit = 15% better chance
+1 AC
+1 initiative
+1 Reflex save
+1 lots of rogue skills

Rogue B would gain over Rogue A:

+3 damage per hand (+2 str +1 avg dam for 1d8 longsword vs. 1d6 rapier)= to avg damage of another sneak attack (1d6 avg damage=3)

Use any weapon (with one level of fighter)

+4 damage for when I need to use a two handed reach weapon (+3 str +1 avg damage for 1d10 weapon vs. 1d8 longspear)

+1 hp per level
+1 fortitude save
+2 swim, jump, climb
extra feat (since no weapon finess feat selected)

So how much does the extra +3 to hit average out verses the extra damage when you do hit the other way. Less hits but more damage vs. more hits for less damage. I'm kinda leaning toward Rogue B but my DM has lots of things that require rogue skills right now. Is the extra +1 in everything Rogy worth the cost?

 

[Mistwell]

Rogue A is on average better. Your sneak attack damage will play a major role in combat in future levels. It will be hitting that will be much more important than dealing damage (except for things immune to sneak attack).

That said, chose whichever is more appealing to your style. You will be happier that way.

 

[GrolloStoutfoam]

I would actually go Rogue B. I myself prefer more damage if my rogue is going hand-to-hand. As far as the extra +1 to Roguey skills it really only affects Hide/Move Silently and Open locks since the two builds have the same INT and CHA. If you go Human for the race, your extra feat could be stealthy to add +2 to Hide/Move Silently or even skill focus to Open Lock to compensate.

 

[Sound of Azure]

I'd go with B, except that Rogue B's point buy doesn't add up. The numbers you've given add up to a 34 point buy if you're using the PHB elf racial ability modifiers.

Here's what I'd do:

Str 14
Dex 19 (17 + 2 Elf)
Con 11 (13 - 2 Elf)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

You can use your level based ability score increases to increase your Dexterity. Down the track, it might be worthwhile to bump Constitution by 1. This results in a more efficient use of your points. If you wanted, you could put the excess point into Charisma or Wisdom rather than Constitution.

Having a 14 Strength means that you are doing a little bit more damage with your weapons and may just get you past some damage reduction as well as allowing your to hit a bit more often in melee before you can acquire Weapon Finesse. It also means you can carry more loot/ adventuring gear.

If you want a bit more durability, you could sacrifice a bit of Strength or Wisdom to compensate. Intelligence is also a possibility, but you mentioned the importance of skills.

 

[Wish]

Well, rogue B looks like it's built either on 36 points (human) or 34 points (elf), so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.

I'm not going to compare exact builds here, but give some general advice. I prefer strength based rogues. I prefer strength based rogues for several reasons, and those are:
1) Strength based checks (grappling or avoiding grapples, climbing, jumping, tripping) are often quite important. With a good strength, you open yourself up to getting extra attacks with a big bonus to hit by using Improved Trip, for example.

2) Carrying capacity. It's not a big deal, but it's hard to carry a full kit of adventuring gear and weapons with a 10 strength, even with light armor like leather or mithral chain shirt. Strength 14 is a lot better.

3) Damage.

4) Power attack. A lot of your damage may be based on sneak attack, but when that golem or displacer beast shows up, you're going to want to be able to do more than 1d6+1 on a hit.

 

[Rogue problem]

oops I added up Rogue B wrong

crap! I forgot about the -2 to constitution the elf has. Sorry. Now that changes things. I have to figure out his ability scores again. Thanks for your help.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Is this a 1st level Rogue you are creating? Because if so, Rogue A does not qualify for Weapon Finesse.

 

[Mistwell]

Guys, rogue B does NOT do on average more damage than rogue A, after a few levels. As soon as you start hitting for sneak attack damage, the attack bonus will result in more average damage than the direct damage bonus. The direct damage is only 3-6 more points of damage per round, IF you hit. The attack bonus is going to add up to a heck of a lot more damage over time, due to the number of sneak attacks that end up hitting where they would otherwise miss.

 

[Rogue problem]

would adding +1 to con at level 4 add +1 to all previous levels

I'd go with B, except that Rogue B's point buy doesn't add up. The numbers you've given add up to a 34 point buy if you're using the PHB elf racial ability modifiers.

Here's what I'd do:

Str 14
Dex 19 (17 + 2 Elf)
Con 11 (13 - 2 Elf)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8

You can use your level based ability score increases to increase your Dexterity. Down the track, it might be worthwhile to bump Constitution by 1. .

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. So if I added a point to constitution later like at level 4 would I also get another 3 hp total for levels 1,2 and 3 combined?
I would have changed it to:
str 14
dex 18 (16+2 Elf)
con 14 (16-2 Elf)
int 14
wis 8
cha 8

But Now you got me thinking:
str 14 or 15
dex 19 (17+2 Elf)
con 12 (14-2 Elf)
int 14
wis 9 or 8
cha 8

 

[RigaMortus2]

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. So if I added a point to constitution later like at level 4 would I also get another 3 hp total for levels 1,2 and 3 combined?

Yes, Con modifier to HPs is retroactive.

FWIW... Int modifier to skill points is not.