Which Classes Need Quick Fixes, And What Do You Recommend?

[Greg K]

Oh good idea! I had often thought about adjusting a sorcerer's skills, but giving them an option is a great variant that never even occured to me!

Thanks. I originally had planned on giving all three as class skill, but I realized that even the bard does not get all three.

 

[airwalkrr]

I'd recommend boosting the marshall's BAB to match the fighter's BAB too.
Otherwise its just a weak class to stay in (good fix for the 1 level dip into it though).

You, my friend, have never played (or played with) a marshal. At least you have never seen one played to its potential. I have seen two campaigns with marshals in them (that is characters with levels in ONLY the marshal class) and they rocked the house in both. One campaign went from 1st all the way to 12th or so and the marshal was probably the most powerful member of the party the whole way. As the DM, I found myself subsconsciously finding ways to take him out of the combat because I recognized that he was the one holding them together.

As an aside, I've often wondered how devastating it would be to have a party that consisted solely of a bard, a marshal, a dragon shaman, and a cleric, the four biggest buffing classes. I have a feeling that such a party would kick ass, but have never seen it tried.

Incidentally, I have a fix for the marshal which makes it not so top-loaded, but overall keeps the character at the same power level. I also got rid of the dead levels with a simple ability scheme. I've attached it if you would like to look at it. You might like it since I grant it a handful of fighter bonus feats and you seem inclined to think of it as a melee class (which it isn't, but the feats assuage those who think that way).

 

[airwalkrr]

Oops. Didn't get attached for some reason. Here ya go.

Also, I agree the marshal is too tempting for a dip class. This variant fixes that.

 

[FireLance]

Cleric: Domain spell slots are cleric class features, and are not improved by prestige classes that grant +1 level of spellcasting. A cleric gets his first domain spell slot (for 1st level spells) at 1st level, his second (for 2nd level spells) at 3rd level, and so on until he gets his ninth domain slot (for 9th level spells) at 17th level. Hence, a cleric 5/PrC X only gets three domain slots for spells from 1st to 3rd levels.

 

[airwalkrr]

Cleric: Domain spell slots are cleric class features, and are not improved by prestige classes that grant +1 level of spellcasting. A cleric gets his first domain spell slot (for 1st level spells) at 1st level, his second (for 2nd level spells) at 3rd level, and so on until he gets his ninth domain slot (for 9th level spells) at 17th level. Hence, a cleric 5/PrC X only gets three domain slots for spells from 1st to 3rd levels.

Nice one. I like to see encouragement for the base classes.

 

[FireLance]

Nice one. I like to see encouragement for the base classes.

A similar quick fix for the sorcerer: A sorcerer gets one less spell slot for each spell level between 1st and 9th. As a class ability, a sorcerer gains a bonus spell slot for 1st-level spells at 2nd level, a second bonus spell slot for 2nd-level spells at 5th level, a third bonus spell slot for 3rd-level spells at 7th level, and so on until he gets his ninth bonus spell slot for 9th-level spells at 19th level. While this would give a sorcerer an incentive to stay in the class, and makes his rate of power escalation more even (compared to the fairly large jumps at each even level between 4th and 18th), this would de-power him somewhat compared to the wizard. One fix could be to increase the sorcerer's HD by one step to d6.

 

[brehobit]

You, my friend, have never played (or played with) a marshal.

Marshals are very powerful, no doubt. But a well designed bard can do even better (if less often). A bard/marshal is pretty silly.

That said, I think the proposed limit of the minor aura to the marshal level is a pretty good thing. They need _something_ else just to make them a bit more fun to play. Maybe spells as a ranger or paladin or something...

Mark

 

[airwalkrr]

Marshals are very powerful, no doubt. But a well designed bard can do even better (if less often). A bard/marshal is pretty silly.

Well I never claimed the marshal was worse than the bard. I am in complete agreement with everything you just said. It's just that the marshal is bad in a different way.

That said, I think the proposed limit of the minor aura to the marshal level is a pretty good thing. They need _something_ else just to make them a bit more fun to play. Maybe spells as a ranger or paladin or something...

Well I think my variant is a very attractive option. Check it out.

 

[brehobit]

Well I never claimed the marshal was worse than the bard. I am in complete agreement with everything you just said. It's just that the marshal is bad in a different way.



Well I think my variant is a very attractive option. Check it out.

Some parts I like. The improved aura is a very good idea, and the bonus feats aren't bad. But the minor aura restrictions (must more than the "quick fix"), the range limit and the removal of CHR from playing a role (other than range) is a bit painful IMO. Maybe improve the minor auras by +1 but cap them at the CHR modifier? I'd also consider allowing a wider range of feats (maybe include skill-focus?) for the bonus feats. I can see a marshal as a leader but not a fighter.

Other than pulling CHR out of the "bonus" part of the marshal (just range) I think it is a clear improvement over the MHB version...

Mark

 

[airwalkrr]

By removing Charisma as a truly vital stat to the marshal (although a marshal with a 13 Charisma won't be of much help), I reduced the MAD that a marshal had to suffer through. I also like it because it encourages balance between similar characters with different ability scores. A 10th level marshal's minor aura is just as effective as any other 10th level marshal's, but the marshal with an 18 Charisma will have a 20 ft. wider AOE than a marshal with a 14 Charisma. So it is a benefit to have a higher Charisma, but not an absolute necessity. This leaves more room for the marshal to take to the field himself, which is very inspiring if you think about it. The bonus feats contribute to this. I believe adding Leadership to the list of the marshal's bonus feats might be a good idea though, or possibly simply making up a list of bonus feats ala the Scout. If I have time to do it in the future, that would probably be the best route.