Which is D&D? 4e or 2e?

[avin]

Because 4e is sufficiently different 1e, 2e, and 3e that it rather stopped feeling like the same game. (mechanically speaking)

Not really.

D20 is there, saves are there, AC is there, HP is there... maybe it's just your feeling and your love for 2e AD&D speaking. Maybe it's nostalgia, I don't know.

4E is different from 3.5 which is different from AD&D wich is different from 1E.

All of them are D&D.

 

[Fifth Element]

I wish I had my 1e MMII with me right now, because I think THAC0 might have even made it into the official stat blocks. MerricB, or someone else with the info on tap, can confirm or correct me here. Otherwise, I'll check when I get home tonight.

Nope. No THAC0 in MMII. Just checked.

 

[Harr]

I like this explanation the best. Succinct and logical. Not quiet sure why everyone else just gets really mad about the question though (probably the poor way I framed it I guess).

Hm, yep probably because:

So what do we call 2e players, since the official company says 4e is D&D?

What do we call 2e players? .... We call them.... 2e players.

Wait wait wait, but then what do we call 4e players? Oh that's easy we call them... umm let me think.... we call them.... 4e players.

See why the question might tend to annoy people? Not the way you asked it; the fact that you thought it needed to be asked in the first place.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Nope. No THAC0 in MMII. Just checked.

Thanks. Couldn't remember if they had done that or not.


EDIT: The 1e MMII is awesome. (Just doing my part )


RC

 

[JeffB]

THACO is listed in the 1E DMG monster charts in the back

BTW- another stupid edition wars thread- yay

 

[avin]

BTW- another stupid edition wars thread- yay

QFT... I'm growing tired of edition X is not D&D, edition Y sucks... could we have some respect for all editions, DMs and players?

 

[Victim]

No, it's not. THACO is useful because you can use it to calculate what you need to hit any AC.

In 1E, the combat tables did not go 18-19-20-21-22... they went 18-19-20-20-20-20-20-20-21-22 or whatever. There's a stretch of ACs where 20 hits, not just a single AC.

So like I said in a previous post, a 1st-level MU has a 20 THAC0. But also a 20 THAC1. He needs the same number to hit AC 1 as he does AC 0. Because of the repeating 20's.

So it's not just an acronym. It actually changes how the to-hit mechanics work at certain ACs, if you use THACO to calculate what you need to hit these ACs.

And there's also different weapons changing the chart too. IIRC, Maces, flails, and lances got extra attack bonuses against good ACs as opposed to swords or staves.

 

[Remathilis]

You're not helping.

But that's more reason than most of the "blargh" threads actually gave. They usually involved video game and CCG references.

Goes back to my theory (posted in Sig for ease of reference)...

I'm beginning to wonder if I need to include the classic Godwin corollary about losing the argument and ending the thread...

 

[Raven Crowking]

THACO is listed in the 1E DMG monster charts in the back

I thought it was in 1e somewhere.......!

Not that it matters, really.

BTW- another stupid edition wars thread- yay

I prefer to think of it as the "Ship of Theseus Paradox" as pertains to RPGs. IMHO, conservation laws do not apply to identity, so that both ships can be considered the Ship of Theseus. It is also my opinion that identity is not an intrinsic quality, so that both ships can be considered not the Ship of Theseus.

IMHO, there is no objectively "right" answer, and it matters not a whit whether or not either of us consider a particular ship to be the Ship of Theseus.

(Philosophical questions about how identity is determined are interesting, IMHO, whereas most specific cases are not.)


RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Goes back to my theory (posted in Sig for ease of reference)...

No doubt you mean

Originally Posted by Arkhandus
......I endorse anything Remathilis says.​

Words to live by.




RC