Which is more important for Bbn: Dex or Con?

[Darklone]

Welll.... a really green level 1 barbarian? Let's see!

With a normal PBS (Point Buy System, not Point Blank Shot here)... I'd go definitely for strength 18. Barbarians tend to use twohanded weapons for a greater benefit while raging and twohanded weapons are only worth it compared with a large shield (at low levels) if you have strength 18.

(waiting for outbursts of complaints)

so. PBS 28:
Strength 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave.

He's not nice, he's not bright, but he'll know if you try to cheat him and will boot your door. Fast Movement will keep let him attack as first in many encounters, charge and rage will let him hit most things and a little bit Power Attack might drop tougher opponents in one attack while Cleave takes care of two small opponents at once. Sure, his AC is negligible, but with an archer comrade behind him who shoots the remaining goblins, he'll do fine.

Halforc barbarian: reaches strength 18 much easier, might look like this:
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6.
Who said halforcs are bad??
Biggest disadvantage: The missing feat for Cleave will see him much weaker till level 3 than the human.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

All things being equal, therefore, the notion of 'conspicuous targeting' would imply that the barbarian actually has to make *fewer* Fort saves than Ref saves- the notion of the high-Con high-Fort barbarian is a solid deterrent against targeting individual Fort-based spells against the barbarian (there are a few mass Fort save spells, but they are usually extremely high level).

Conspicuous targetting, as I see it, also says if the Barbarian is wading through my goons, I need to do something about him before he reaches me. So I can be "forced" to target the Barbarian. Obviously a Will-save spell would be my first choice, but I will hit him with whatever I've got to save my hide.

IME most Fort saves are actually poison or some effect of Undead, e.g. ghoul paralysis. You are targetted as a direct consequence of being in melee. These are not the most dangerous effects, but you will often get hit by them many times in the same encounter. YMMV.

 

[Gnome Berzerker]

With a normal PBS (Point Buy System, not Point Blank Shot here)... I'd go definitely for strength 18. Barbarians tend to use twohanded weapons for a greater benefit while raging and twohanded weapons are only worth it compared with a large shield (at low levels) if you have strength 18.

(waiting for outbursts of complaints)

Here's your first: asked for stat placement in the "Default Array," not "Point Buy." method

BTW, isn't "normal" PB 25 points, not 28?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

low level survival point. Worring about survival on a barbarian is a bit different than a wizard or rogue. With d12 HP you have a much smaller gamble and can more easily take a risk and look for the long term benefits in stat assingment and even feats.

 

[KarinsDad]

low level survival point. Worring about survival on a barbarian is a bit different than a wizard or rogue. With d12 HP you have a much smaller gamble and can more easily take a risk and look for the long term benefits in stat assingment and even feats.

Not necessarily true if you are in the front rank all of the time.

 

[Endur]

For low level survivability, strength is probably the most important stat.

More strength = more damage = better chance of dropping opponent and cleaving = and if you cleave, more strength = better chance of hitting on the cleave attack

 

[green slime]

Given a point buy: 28, I might go somethng like this:

Human, Level 1

Str 15: (8 points)
Dex 12: (4 points)
Con 14: (6 points)
Int 14: (6 points)
Wis 12: (4 points)
Cha 8: (0 points)

Skills:rks:Total
Balance3
Climb6
Intimidate3
Jump6
Listen5
Swim6
Tumble3

Feats: Iron Will, EWP:Spiked Chain (aiming for Imp Trip)

But I'm a big fan of survivability/versatility. Tumble does a decent job of replacing Mobility/Spring Attack. Going for the big scores costs too much, IMO, unless you are an arcane spellcaster. Drop Balance and Jump after you get the obligatory 5 ranks, and find some other skill(s) to concentrate on.

I guess I fear the Will spells more than the spears of goblins

 

[Darklone]

Spiked chain... I think I wouldn't do that with a singleclass barbarian. There are so many nice feats, you will need some fighter levels to build a good spiked chain wielder.

Standard array... definitely halforc then, str 17 is a must and level 4 will give you a nice boost.
str 17, dex 13, con 14, int 10, wis 10, cha 6.

Int 10 is necessary to enjoy the barbarians skillpoints, strength 18 will see you through the battles. IME, barbarians with less strength don't live long enough because they kill the opponents not fast enough.

Waiting for Cleave till level 3 might hurt, but you don't need that many other feats so urgently.

 

[two]

never bought this argument

Spiked chain... I think I wouldn't do that with a singleclass barbarian. There are so many nice feats, you will need some fighter levels to build a good spiked chain wielder.

Standard array... definitely halforc then, str 17 is a must and level 4 will give you a nice boost.
str 17, dex 13, con 14, int 10, wis 10, cha 6.

Int 10 is necessary to enjoy the barbarians skillpoints, strength 18 will see you through the battles. IME, barbarians with less strength don't live long enough because they kill the opponents not fast enough.

Waiting for Cleave till level 3 might hurt, but you don't need that many other feats so urgently.

I've never bought the "best defense is a good offense" argument, particularly at low levels.

You can only make this argument if a barbarian is "poof" face-2-face with the bad guys and raging and putting the smack down immediately.

But this rarely happens. What about the round or two of ranged combat before melee is engaged? What about the round of barbarian charging (which end with a killed grunt) then 3-4 other grunt surround the barbarian and start hitting? A half-orc does not even have cleave, and is busy getting pounded on with it's wretched AC.

Most combats I have seen involve some sort of tactical movement, allowing even the loweliest of grunts able to keep some distance from the foolish charging easy-to-hit barbarian. Or at worst, surround him when he gets there.

Really, with this "all in strength" half-orc build, two goblins with crossbows (at range) can and will pose a serious threat to the barb's existence.

In my experience, death likelihood for classes is:

1) Monk
2) Barbarian
3) Rogue...


Last) Cleric. Has anyone ever seen a cleric actually die?

 

[Gaiden]

I don't see enough powergaming going on:

15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

Str 15
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 12
Chr 8

+1 AC at first level is worth a feat.
+1 HP at first level is not.

At fourth level you get a stat boost. Pump up your Con if you are concerned about saves/HPs. Now you will get 4 HPs (better than a feat). Alternatively pump up your Str to get the equivalent of a feat and save the con raise until 8th level.

Its all about survivability at the specific time in question. Wear medium armor at 1st level (scale mail) and you will have a 16 AC - nothing to sneeze at (14 while raging). Your speed will still be 30' (I believe you still get the speed boost while in medium armor). You will easily be able to afford a chain shirt before second level and by 4th level will hopefully be able to attain some sort of magical AC boosting.

Keep in mind that at low levels, most of your foes will be entirely too weak to be able to stand up to your damage output (especially if you are power attacking with a two handed weapon). This means that the ability to rage longer becomes less important than maximizing your effectiveness over the shorter term. One less hit becomes a lot more important than a few more hit points.

At higher levels, when you start taking into account DR, more hit points matters a lot more than 1 less hit. Also, as previously stated, you should just assume that you will be getting hit (unless you have some really badass mithril breastplate +5).

Hope that helps