Which noble PC class

[Desdichado]

I'm trying to decide which "noble" PC class to use in my next homebrew. The WoT one is probably not what I want, as it's too reliant on a "soft" mechanic that I don't like. The aristocrat NPC class is too bland -- that's why it's an NPC class after all. Still, I'll put them on the poll anyway.

No, really, I think I'm down to either the Revised Star Wars Noble class or the Rokugan Courtier class. Both have their advantages, but I'm interested in what the boards think. Maybe some other opinions will jog something loose in my head and I'll make a decision quicker!

 

[drquestion]

I voted for the Rokugan courtier, as I think it's a great class. There's finally a skill-based class for social interaction. Some of the special abilities are pretty nice, too. As a class, I think this is the most interesting of the ones listed.

OTOH, the courtier wouldn't be suitable for some campaigns, both in flavor and in abilities. Unless your campaign world is one in which many nobles spend almost all of their time at court (think 17th-century France and the court of Louis XIV), the courtier might not really fit as a description of most nobles. Also, if you're in a campaign where the main focus is on combat, and social interaction is of minimal importance, then the courtier is going to feel useless almost all of the time, as it has little in the way of combat ability.

For a combat-centered campaign, or a campaign in which most nobles, while still trained in social interaction, are also trained in combat and, especially, in commanding troops, then the revised SW noble might be a better choice, because of the better BAB progression and the coordinate and inspire confidence abilities.

Or, you could just go ahead and do what Rokugan does and add a samurai-type character who represents a noble who is also a trained warrior, getting fewer feats than a fighter, but more skill points to spend on social skills.

drquestion

 

[Frostmarrow]

The DMG Aristrocrat with Leadership as a bonus feat at first level makes for a good class, I think. Makes me think of Philleas Fogg and Passepartout.

 

[hong]

Also, if you're in a campaign where the main focus is on combat, and social interaction is of minimal importance, then the courtier is going to feel useless almost all of the time, as it has little in the way of combat ability.

Which is fair enough, I think. If your schtick involves talking to people, then it's only reasonable you're not going to be very good at hitting them. The same charge is sometimes levelled at the bard.

Speaking of which, if a campaign is going to feature nobles, it might not be a bad idea to ditch bards. That class's schtick also revolves around being the talker, and it's generally not good to have classes sharing schticks.

For a combat-centered campaign, or a campaign in which most nobles, while still trained in social interaction, are also trained in combat and, especially, in commanding troops, then the revised SW noble might be a better choice, because of the better BAB progression and the coordinate and inspire confidence abilities.

... or play a multiclassed fighter/courtier, paladin/courtier, or whatnot. A lot of the classes in D&D are extremes in terms of the niche they fill. You fill in the bits between the extremes via multiclassing.

Or, you could just go ahead and do what Rokugan does and add a samurai-type character who represents a noble who is also a trained warrior, getting fewer feats than a fighter, but more skill points to spend on social skills.

You could do that too.

Like you, I prefer the Rokugan courtier. The SW noble has some abilities which would be a bit hard to shoehorn into a fantasy setting, without resorting to "it's magic" handwaving. I'm thinking of the Resource Access thing in particular.

 

[Archibald Theocliste]

The Aristocrat is a little on the weak side for PCs. And I backup drquestion on the Courtier, it's not suited for all campaigns. If you want a flexible easy to adapt class, I suggest you give a try to the Revised Star Wars Noble.

Oh BTW, since this Noble is nothing more than a revised version of the first Star Wars and the Wheel of Time one, you are splitting the votes for the same class in two, so the results may very well end in favor of the Courtier over the Noble.

Anyway just my 2 cp.

Cya, cya.

[EDIT] I added a smiley cause I hate posting without adding a smiley

 

[drquestion]

Originally posted by hong
Which is fair enough, I think. If your schtick involves talking to people, then it's only reasonable you're not going to be very good at hitting them. The same charge is sometimes levelled at the bard.

Oh, sure. I'm not saying that the courtier is flawed because it doesn't have much in the way of combat abilities, just that if he's in a campaign where he doesn't have much opportunity to show off those areas in which he shines, the player might not have that much fun. As I said, though, I think that, taken on its own terms, the courtier is the best class of the choices we were given.

The SW noble has some abilities which would be a bit hard to shoehorn into a fantasy setting, without resorting to "it's magic" handwaving. I'm thinking of the Resource Access thing in particular.

I think that this depends on the campaign again. By the late 13th century, Europeans had a highly developed banking system in their urban areas, with things like letters of credit, so Resource Access could represent the noble character using his family's credit at a bank, or even simply borrowing from other aristocrats that have connections to his family.

drquestion

 

[laiyna]

doh....

You are defently not well informed, and that makes this a very bad post.

There are several other noble classes, and the best I have seen so far is none WotC, Its from SovStone.

Laiyna

 

[Desdichado]

Re: doh....

You are defently not well informed, and that makes this a very bad post.

There are several other noble classes, and the best I have seen so far is none WotC, Its from SovStone.

Laiyna

You are definately insulting and that makes this a very bad post.

I realize there are other "noble" classes available, but I'm asking about the ones that I own. Ones that I do not have don't do me much good, as I don't have them.

 

[Desdichado]

Oh BTW, since this Noble is nothing more than a revised version of the first Star Wars and the Wheel of Time one, you are splitting the votes for the same class in two, so the results may very well end in favor of the Courtier over the Noble.

Well, I don't know that I'd call it a revised version. They're really completely different. I don't see how it's splitting the votes. If the changes were minor, I'd agree.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Re: doh....

There are several other noble classes, and the best I have seen so far is none WotC, Its from SovStone.

The Sovereign Stone class is okay, except:

The Available Funds ability is somewhat problematic because it's given in the Sovereign Stone monetary system.

As far as I can tell offhand, the money you get from Available Funds is insulting compared to the average treasure values for a character of your level. I could be wrong.

The bonus to Leadership score you get at high level is useless because any respectible noble has already maxxed out his Leadership score by that time.

The ability they get around 12th or 13th level (to Bluff someone into being their loyal friend) introduces a new mechanic to do something that a noble ought to be able to essentially do anyway with the obscene Diplomacy skill they ought to have by that level and a little role-playing, but uses Bluff instead (improperly in my opinion, and unnecessarily adding further to the usefulness of the already too-useful Bluff skill).

There are points in the progression where they get very little for their new level, rather unnecessarily.

All of this stuff is not actually that big a problem. I like the class if you make a few changes. Since the whole thing is basically Open Content, I've considered posting my version some day if I ever bother to cook up the necessary OGL update. Yes, I know that absent such information this post does you no good, Joshua, but the discussion might interest somebody.