Which non-core monsters should have been core?

[BWP]

Uh, such as? Many of the creatures in the 2E MM first appeared in FR products: the dracolich, the beholder variants, etc. Nowadays most people think FR "stole" those creatures, but they originated in FR.

Such as the creatures that appeared in the 2e Monstrous Compendium, Appendix Three: Forgotten Realms that had originally appeared in one of the core 1e monster books (i.e., Monster Manual, Fiend Folio and Monster Manual II). There's more than a small number of them. Why had these "core" critters suddenly taken up exclusive residence in the Forgotten Realms setting? I didn't know, and I didn't want to know.

It was after purchasing MC Appendix 3 that I realised that 2e was all about getting me to buy stuff I didn't want just to get me back to the level that 1e had already reached. I abandoned it at that point. (I had only been buying 2e stuff because I'd hoped for a dramatic improvement over the 1e rules; alas, that wasn't to happen until 3e came along.)

As for claiming that Monsters of Faerun must be a core product because it doesn't say "Forgotten Realms" on the cover -- let's just say that I don't set my games in Faerun and have no interest in finding out what monsters might live there. If WOTC wanted to sell that book as a "core product", then it should have been entitled Monsters of anywhere you like, and certainly not that place that is otherwise known as "Forgotten Realms". I've spent many years not buying Forgotten Realms supplements, and it's not a habit I intend to break any time soon.

 

[BWP]

(said the man who published a Dungeon adventure called "Box of Flumph")

And a very fine adventure it is, too. I ran that for my regular group as a one-shot and it was very well received.

 

[BWP]

Some people here are suggesting that FR "stole" monsters from the core, pointing out that these "stolen" monsters were in the 2E MM but now appear in FR products.

Not me. I've never even seen a copy of 2e Monstrous Manual. Some people here seem to forget that it was not the original 2e Monster book. See my previous post just above.

I'm pointing out that many of the monsters appearing in the 2E MM actually originated in FR in the first place and were put in the 2E MM as "generic" monsters

And they weren't the creatures I was referring to, so you don't need to be concerned about that, OK?

* Bullywugs aren't FR-specific creatures, so their presence in the 2E MM or in Monsters of Faerun is irrelevant.

If their only official 3e appearance is in a FR book, then they are now FR creatures, regardless of whatever they used to be.

Because we wanted FR gamers to know it's a book they should pick up, but didn't want to put an FR logo on it so non-FR people wouldn't pick it up "because I can't use an FR book.

Well, that was badly screwed up then, wasn't it?

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

You mean Modrons weren't lame? Blarg.

Sorry, Formians are a much better LN archetype than funky dice shaped critters.

 

[RichGreen]

The sad fact of the matter is that Planescape, and Monte Cook in particular, went a long way toward rehabilitating the modrons, but by then it was too late, and Planescape products were selling at about the rate of a successful d20 module today. Ergo, almost no one was reading them.

I remember laughing at them for years, but Planescape completely changed my feelings towards them to affection. The Great Modron March adventure anthology was excellent! What I do think is a pity is that formians and inevitables have been used in their stead when the rehabilitation of the modrons could have continued.

Cheers


Richard

 

[Pants]

Happily, Genasi seem to have been carried foreward elsewhere, but we still have yet to see updated treatment or featuring of creatures like Abishai and Shadow Dragons out there, instead being deluged with new creatures that (personal nit or not) don't do near as much to capture my imagination as these old favorites.

FYI, Shadow Dragons and Fang Dragons both were updated in the Draconomicon.

My list of NonCore Monsters that shoulda been Core:
Brownie
Death Knight
Dracolich
Dragon, Brown
Dragon, Deep
Dragon, Shadow
Genie, Dao
Genie, Marid
Grell
Hook Horror
Quickling
Skeleton Warrior
Yugoloths (though, to be fair, they were going to be Core, but it was decided that the Core MM shouldn't have such a strong focus on Outer Planar Creatures, which is a good argument actually)

 

[Steel_Wind]

if i could get ye olde memory to work correctly i could almost pinpoint the module i saw one in action... i wanna say I3 Pharoah...

DL3 - Dragons of Hope

 

[diaglo]

DL3 - Dragons of Hope

Aha... so at least i got the 3 right.

 

[Cam Banks]

Aha... so at least i got the 3 right.

It's OK, they had the same author, as well.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Zakath429]

I agree with the Death Knight, but what about the Skeleton Warrior. I love the Shadow Dragon, but what about 1e FF-- the Vegepygmies. I still wince at the name from playing the 1e module EXPEDITION TO BARRIER PEAK (the rot grubs bring forth screams of horror from that module). Yes, I know that I am dating myself, but WTF, from all the posts I read I am not the only one who is and "Old Timer". So here goes this is my list:
1. The Death Knight Template
2. The Skeleton Warrior Template
3. The Shadow Dragon
4. Vegepygmies
5. Rot Grubs
6. Intellect Devourer
7. Banshee
8. Green Slime (as a monster, not a hazard)
9. The Archfiends and Demon Lords
10. Bookworms