Which PrCl would you never want in your game? (part 1 - DMG)

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The point is URGE here is doing what 2 characters do.
.

No, he's not. He may, LOOK to be, but if you have your URGE guy and then a Wizard and Cleric both with Quicken Spell(since you seem to love that so much, its only fair they both get it), they're casting FOUR spells per round. STILL twice as many as your URGE. And, since they act on different Initiative modifiers, they will have a much better effect on the battle as a whole, with one being able to react to the actions of enemies.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, what he's doing isn't *strictly* illegal for the reason you state.

He's got an Empowered Fireball memorized, and is maximizing it with his lesser metamagic rod of maximize. The problem is that you cannot use a Lesser Metamagic rod on any spell higher than 3rd level, meaning that Empowered Fireball (a 5th-level spell) is likely not a valid target.

The next problem is that he's using two separate rods in a single turn - each of which needs to be in-hand in order to be used. Since you also need a free hand to cast any spell with a somatic or material component (of which Fireball has both) and I don't see Eschew Materials or Still Spell in there, he's definately running out of hands.

You also have the problem of using lesser metmagic rods on 5th level spells.

EDIT: He also seems to only have one Empowered Fireball memorized - though he could easily switch the LB for an FB, so the issue is less important.

He could, but the point isn't whether he can blast a wizard/cohort combination. If the wizard/cohort get the initiative, Urge dies in the first round instead. The point is who can contribute more over the course of an advanture, and Urge can't keep up. He can only use his lesser metamagic rods a grand total of three times per day each, while the wizard/cohort can cast two spells per round all day, until they run out of spells.

Another point which has not actually been addressed is that each character is starting off at 12th level with standard gold and unlimited XP to spend.

This isn't the way to handle things.

Instead, start with an XP total and a GP total. Spend them however you wish (levels, multiclassing penalties, crafting, etc.).

I did suggest this. I even pointed out that is the way it should be handled. In his rush to make a completely screwed up character, DungeonMaster ran past that point. I figure he spent at least 6,600 xp on crafting items in his spree.

 

[Storm Raven]

Of course they can. The wizard can even have all the same gear. His cohort is then naked however.

Umm, no he's not. The cohort shows up with "gear appropriate for his level", after that, it would cost extra to equip him. But even assuming that the wizard recruited him when the cohort was 4th level (the earliest he could get the cohort), the cohort would have at least 3,300 gp. If the wizard waited until 9th level to recruit his cohort (about the time the MTs abilities start mattering), he would show up with 7,200 gp worth of gear. Even if the wizard spends no money on his cohort, the cohort is far from naked.

 

[Storm Raven]

Gear: 88 000 total

You've got some problems here.

8000 Metamagic rod of lesser maximize (crafted)
17500 Metamagic rod of lesser quicken (crafted)
4000 Ring of counterspells
8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted)
8000 Headband of intellect +4 (crafted)
4500 Cloak of resistance +3 (crafted)
15000 Orange ioun stone (crafted)

How do you craft the ioun stone. You don't seem to meet the prerequisites.

6500 Monk's belt (crafted)
4000 Ioun stone +2 Con (crafted)

Another ioun stone.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Of course they can. The wizard can even have all the same gear. His cohort is then naked however.

No he's not. The cohort starts with his own gear.

They have 1 higher level slot. It's important but really push comes to shove, having the extra spell pool is golden. I don't *have* to take protection versus elements on my arcane half. Or teleport. And the domain granted powers are just icing on the cake.

Actually I was pretty sure that being 3 caster levels higher than you would probably give them more than just a single higher level slot...

Or we could both abuse polymorph for this sort of discussion and get silly dex scores.

Assuming that you've already cast polymorph when you waltz into the fight. The wizard has those bennies ALL THE TIME.

Oh, and your spellbook sucks. A big part of the wizard is versatility - for the 23,000 gp that you've spent on boosting up your caster levels, the wizard has a whole lot more spells than you... And that's really what makes a wizard powerful. If you're just going for "most damage in a round", use a sorceror. Who, incidentally, STILL knows more arcane spells than you.

And finally - I note that you listed "skills - not important, better than the non-MT".
Wrong. The non MT has a better natural intelligence than you do, and the same number of regular skill points per level.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The Ioun stones in the DMG have the following statblock:

Moderate varied; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be 12th level.

Accordingly, he meets the prerequisites.

I'd be more concerned about this:

8000 Headband of intellect +4 (crafted): He doesn't have access to Fox's Cunning, as stated.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Bring the tone back to polite, please.

Not neutral. Polite.

 

[Storm Raven]

AC: 23 (10 + 2 dex + 5 wis +1 monk + 4 mage armor +1 luck)

Luckstones don't grant an AC bonus. Your mage armor is only up nine hours out of the day. What happens when you are attacked outside of this time frame?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Wow... what a flurry of activity...

Anyhow, all at once:

1/ I do meet the prerequisite for ioun stone crafting (as noted by Elvenshae)
2/ Only heighten spell changes the level of a spell. All other metamagic does not change the spell's level. The rods work on 3rd level or lower spells. Even if it takes up a 5th level slot, an empowered fireball is 3rd level.
3/ I have caster level 10, not 9 from the ioun stone. I can memorize more mage armor if you "really" think it's relevant.
So empowered maximized fireball + quickened empowered fireball is legal using my items.
4/ Luckstone to AC my bad. (fixed)
5/ I thought clerics had all the animal buffs, they don't (fixed)

"The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for it's level" does NOT mean "the cohort arrives with gear" it means "you need to equip him appropriately " otherwise he's going to leave you.

The interpretation of the leadership penalty for having a familiar is extremely dubious . That would be like setting up a stronghold, staying put for a month, then getting all your followers, packing up and selling the stronghold and keeping all the followers. It's bunk. If you have a familiar you're at -2 to your cohort's effective level. He doesn't like your divided attention.

 

[Kem]

I figure he spent at least 6,600 xp on crafting items in his spree.

6680, good guess. Thats half a level.

Just using plain rules, not trying to abuse the item crafting system, polymorph or other highly abusable mechanics.

Like the Monk's Belt.

THE URGE
Human Evoker3/Clr3/Urge6

Evoker cannot bar Divination.

Stats: str 8, dex 14 (12+ 2 gloves), con 15 (13+ 2 iounstone), int 20 (15+1 levels+ 4 headband), wis 20 (14 +2 levels +4 periapt), cha 10
Hp: 52.5 (8 +2d8+9d4 = 28.5 + 2x12 con)
AC: 23 (10 + 2 dex + 5 wis +1 monk + 4 mage armor +1 luck)
Touch AC: 20

Touch AC is 19, well 18 once you get rid of the Luckstone AC bonus. Your nomal AC is 22.

Saves: +12/+12/+20
( 3/1/3 cleric + 1/1/3 wizard + 2/2/5 MT then + 2 con, +4 dex and weasel + 5 wiz then +3 resistance +1 luck)
Skills: the standard, spellcraft, concentration and so forth, not a big deal will be better than the non-MTs
Feats: Scribe scroll (free), Empower spell (1st), Maximize spell (1st), Craft wondrous item (3rd), Spell penetration (6th), Quicken spell (9th), Craft rod (12th).
Gear: 88 000 total
8000 Metamagic rod of lesser maximize (crafted)
17500 Metamagic rod of lesser quicken (crafted)
4000 Ring of counterspells
8000 Periapt of wisdom +4 (crafted)
8000 Headband of intellect +4 (crafted)
4500 Cloak of resistance +3 (crafted)
15000 Orange ioun stone (crafted)
6500 Monk's belt (crafted)
4000 Ioun stone +2 Con (crafted)
2000 Gloves of dexterity +2 (crafted)
10000 Luckstone (crafted)
100 Weasel familiar
-----------------------------
87600 GP total
Extra cash for scrolls, mundane gear, etc...

You can't craft the gloves or the Headband.

Spells per day:
Arcane:
1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th
4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from specialisation)
2/1/1/1/1 from int 20
Total:
7/5/5/4/3

Divine:
1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th
4+1/4+1/3+1/2+1/1+1 (+ from domain)
2/1/1/1/1 from wis 20
7/5/5/4/3

Fixed your typo on the ability bonuses, didn't matter really, you don't have 6th level spells.

Standard way of killing the opposing wizard+cleric (as if it matters since it's so easy):

What role are you filling in the party?