Which PrCl would you never want in your game? (part 1 - DMG)

[Storm Raven]

Red Wizard, because that would mean Im running FR... and that is not something I want to do, ever.

This is a sentiment I never get. Sure, you may want to avoid playing the FR setting (I don't use it as anything but something to plunder for ideas), but it is very possible to use stuff from the FR setting with the serial numbers filed off for other settings. Why, exactly, makes it impossible to use the Red Wizard PrC in this manner?

 

[Bront]

I find it interesting that flavor is the problem for the DMG PrCs. They aren't supposed to have specific flavor, they're supposed to be generaly usefull. Their genericness actualy makes them flexable to let a character add his/her own flavor, or a GM to ad his own flavor.

I've played several 3.5 games, and the first time I ever took a PrC, it was the Elderich Knight, which fit the character I had built and the concept I had envisioned the character. He later may take a few levels of Arcane Archer, though I'm not sure how many, but again, that fits the character. Is he perfect? No. Is he fun to play and flavorful? Yes.

 

[DungeonMaster]

None would enter my campaign- absolutely none of them. "Prestige class" is a dirty oxymoron. Initially intended for world development they're merely piles of game mechanics best used for a game of "munchkin" than anything D&D. Perhaps dungeon crawls when there's nothing more interesting about your character and you die every session or so.
These bring no flavor to the game, dilute the archetypes, and provide benefits not commensurate with cost of entry in the least.
Prestige class are the top thing for 4th edition I want to see burn and die a horrible death never to be used again.

 

[Storm Raven]

Prestige class are the top thing for 4th edition I want to see burn and die a horrible death never to be used again.

My best educated guess:

Get used to disappointment.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

None - absolutely none of them. "Prestige class" is a dirty oxymoron. Initially intended for world development they're merely piles of game mechanics best used for a game of "munchkin" than anything D&D.
These bring no flavor to the game, dilute the archetypes, and provide benefits not commensurate with cost of entry in the least.
Prestige class are the top thing for 4th edition I want to see burn and die a horrible death never to be used again.

Um...you know that you just answered "None" to "Which PrC would you NEVER want in your game."

So you just kind of said...all of them.

 

[Elephant]

Well, it might not be perfectly true that having the casting ability of both a 15th level cleric and a 15th level wizard is equal to having the casting ability of a 20th level wizard its roughly true. Certainly we agree that at some point, say having the caster ability of a 19th level cleric and a 19th level wizard and only be a 20th level character would be unbalancing. So what's it going to be?
<snip>
Moreover, compared to the single class Wizard you are gaining 2 cleric domain powers which can be non-trivial (Luck for example, or improved caster level), improved weapon access, improved armor access, improved saving throws, a limited ability to turn undead, and much greater independence since you can cure yourself.

That's why the MT is worthwhile. It's not as powerful as a single-classed wizard or cleric, but it's MUCH, MUCH more flexible. There's a definite tradeoff, and I think people look at the dual-spellcasting progression and go "OMG! Overpowered!" without giving it any thought.

Yeah, but how much more? You are gaining 36+ other spell slots in return, plus some minor abilities. Surely that counts for something?

Lower level spell slots do count for something, but they're not as significant as high-level slots. Again, it's flexibility vs. raw power.

First, blasting foes with evocations is in general a waste of a perfectly good spell in 3rd edition, especially against targets that are worth using spells on, especially at higher levels when lots of things are going to have damage resistance and evasion and the alternative is casting a 'save or die' spell.

That's a fair argument. Even so, caster level counts for other things, too.

Second, I have a feat that allows your caster level to be equal to your character level that was designed to let fighter types splash a few levels of a spell casting class. You don't get more spells per day, but you do get better at using the ones you know.

I wasn't considering the effects of non-core feats or classes...

Sure, but while his heal spell only cures 150 h.p. instead of 200 h.p., he's got 4 extra 6th level arcane spells - Antimagic fields or Greater Dispellings or Circles of Death or Disentigrate or whatever your favorite spell is.

Heal is maxed out at 150 hp - that's why I didn't use it as an example. I'll note that the MT hits the 150 hp "sweet spot" at least 3 levels later than the pure cleric, however.

Agreed and I think that that is probably the biggest drawback to multiclassing between classes with different attribute needs, but then again, you can't have everything. It's not so much that you can't pump both WIS and INT up to 18th by 20th level using point buy, but that you can't focus all your ability advances into pumping one up to 22 or so, and you'll probably have to sacrifice more in your other attributes. But while the multi-classed Cleric/Wizard might not be quite as twinked out as a single class character built by a min/maxer, the MT make it at least viable. It might not be the most powerful character in the party, but it would certainly contribute alot given the number of spells it could cast per day. A pure cleric10/wizard10 though is just not viable in a high level campaign at all.

Agreed on all points in this paragraph. I suspect we're mostly on the same side of this debate; that is, MT is both acceptable (not bannably overpowering, indeed, somewhat underpowered IMO) and necessary (for doing the Wiz/Clr multiclass combo).

 

[Li Shenron]

I demand the right to post on all polls whether or not my oppinion matters.

You can also think of the poll as similar to a reality show: you have to vote and kick one out, you just can't vote "none". And of course your opinion matters! That's why you should post a comment rather than just vote/not-vote.

 

[Sejs]

Horizon Walker, mainly because I don't feature much plane-hopping in my games.

I don't have any problems with any of the DMG PrCs, Horizon Walker included, however that one in particular just doesn't mesh well, so if I had to choose one to boot, that would be my choice.

 

[Romnipotent]

This is a sentiment I never get. Sure, you may want to avoid playing the FR setting (I don't use it as anything but something to plunder for ideas), but it is very possible to use stuff from the FR setting with the serial numbers filed off for other settings. Why, exactly, makes it impossible to use the Red Wizard PrC in this manner?

Rename the wizard and remove any reference to Thay, bind it into whatever setting I'm in and I'll use it... But I have this thing against Faerun, and especially the over hyped Thay. They cant even take Rasheman! (spelling is probably wrong)
I also like voting on polls, and of all of them its the only one I could pick. Then I used the only reason I have, "Dont like FR."
Thats all

 

[ThirdWizard]

You can also think of the poll as similar to a reality show: you have to vote and kick one out, you just can't vote "none". And of course your opinion matters! That's why you should post a comment rather than just vote/not-vote.

Oh, don't worry, as soon as we move beyond the DMG, I'll start up the hatin'.