D&D 3.x Which race "got the shaft" in 3.5

[Li Shenron]

A friend and I had a discussion about how humans are pretty sub-optimal. He claimed that humans seem weaker than the other races. And further, that this was somewhat reflected in the Living Grayhawk RPGA games where he saw very few human full-BAB types.

Thoughts?

I left out 1/2 elves as well, they really do seem to be the worst by far.

Well, some thoughts of mine... speaking only of CORE races anyway!

Races are everything but balanced, however on the very average they probably are roughly on par. It's not easy to compare two races when one (human) is very much open to every possibility, while another (half-orc) is the best at one thing but useless at the others.

What I mean is that if you are only melee-oriented (and focused on straightforward damage), to play a Half-Orc is the best choice because of the Str bonus, which in no other way you can get. That benefit is enough to let you forget about what the other races get.
However, for every other character idea which is not the straight I-do-melee-damage type, the Half-Orc sucks, and the -2 to Int and Cha is a serious hamper to the Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard and Paladin classes.

The human is on the other side of the spectrum. His bonus feat and skill seem to be few stuff compared to how many bonuses a Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling or Elf get. However, you are never going to waste that feat and skill because you choose them. It doesn't matter what you want your character to do, the human bonuses will always be helpful for that.

As a very general comment, although on the very long run this situation probably makes all races equally popular, I don't like it very much... personally I'd love to see Half-Orc Sorcerers as a playable idea for example. And I'd like to see more minor bonuses just for flavor.

 

[Klaus]

Li Shenron -> Check out my half-orc variants at www.fierydragon.com . The half-orc human subrace is well-suited for a sorceror (and any other class, except wizard).

 

[Li Shenron]

Li Shenron -> Check out my half-orc variants at www.fierydragon.com . The half-orc human subrace is well-suited for a sorceror (and any other class, except wizard).

Let me tell you that my own Half-Orc (actually Orc) variant goes far beyond yours

 

[Klaus]

Please, do share!

 

[diaglo]

half-orcs and half-elves are the shafted races.

 

[Thanee]

Well, they got that "Half-" for a reason...

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Mmmhhh... Half-Celestial, Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend, ...

 

[Shin Okada]

Half-Elf makes a nice cleric. Low-light vision helps them casting offensive spells. And many of Cleric's class skills gets bonus from Half-elf's racial traits. Resistance to sleep also helps while in lower level. IMHO human and Half-Elf are top two suitable races for Cleric (and I can't decide which one is better than another). Cleric is widely considered to be the strongest core-class. So I don't think Half-Elf to be weak. Half-Elf is also good good for Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer and such.

 

[Quasqueton]

If the half-orc is the weakest, what do you think of the "full" orc? +4 strength, -2 intelligence, -2 wisdom, -2 charisma?

How about the other humanoid races?

Bugbear (ECL 4)
Gnoll (ECL 3)
Goblin
Hobgoblin (ECL 2)
Kobold
Lizardfolk (ECL 3)

Quasqueton

 

[Klaus]

Kobolds and Goblins are what I refer to as "LA -1" races, as they're obviously weaker than other races.

While they work as monsters, PC kobolds, goblins and orcs would definitely need some extra "oomph" to put them on par with other races.

An option would be give orc characters a bonus on attacks vs. elves and dwarves similar to the bonuses goblins get vs. goblinoids.

 

[Mr. Kaze]

It may not be a core PC race but...

Drow -- your SR no longer protects you from almost an entire school of magic (with the notable exception of healing spells!), thus leaving you and your already penalized constitution fully vulernable to Cloudkill. Darkness as a spell-like ability isn't worth nearly so much any more. And proficiency with a hand-crossbow is commonplace for rogues these days iirc. But you've still got the light-blindness (which deep gnomes, also coming from a low-light race, don't) and are still generally reviled by most other sentient races. Who have wizards and sorcerors that know Cloudkill. All that for the same +2 ECL you had back when SR was consistently worth something!

Gnomes and Half-Orcs are both generally worse racial choices than humans, halflings or dwarves for virtually any purpose. But in terms of who got nerfed specifically in 3.5? The brutal and chaotic Drow (un)civilization could have never come to be if they were always as weak as they are in 3.5e.

Cheers,
::Kaze