This sets up the dangerous proposition that D&D the RPG can be declared "not D&D the RPG" by anyone other than the company publishing D&D the RPG.
We went through this back with 4E and it wasn't a good time.
D&D General Which Sacred Cow Will Be The Last To Slaughter?
- Thread starter Reynard
- Start date
We went through this back with 4E and it wasn't a good time.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
This post might offer clues. It sends AC to the slaughter and supports saving throws, although saving throws have been under attack for many editions now. What's left? The attack roll. Not a poll option, but the attack roll is the darling of D&D's belligerent heritage, and it can even exist without the "core mechanic" although it is directly spawned from such. Come to think of it, the attack roll WAS the fundamental rule prior to 3rd ed.
I picked ability scores because they're intrinsic to PCs and the first point of contact when the player starts asking, "okay, so how do I start killin stuff?"
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Serious, non-snarky answer: Save throws should be the next to go.
Arguably you could replace them all with a single attribute called "Luck," and the game wouldn't suffer for it.
"The dragon exhales, and the air ignites around you! Roll for luck."
"The snake strikes, and you feel its poisonous fangs in your skin! Roll for luck."
"You avert your eyes from the Medusa, but you are a moment too late! Roll for luck."
Arguably you could replace them all with a single attribute called "Luck," and the game wouldn't suffer for it.
"The dragon exhales, and the air ignites around you! Roll for luck."
"The snake strikes, and you feel its poisonous fangs in your skin! Roll for luck."
"You avert your eyes from the Medusa, but you are a moment too late! Roll for luck."
Yaarel
Mind Mage
4e made the attacker always roll. Thus there is no "saving throw", only defenses.
Meanwhile skills and attacks could all use the same math. And defenses be like "passive" skill checks.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Not dangerous, I claim my power as demand center for DnD and other competitive products. Its the consumer test group that will define the last sacred cow - as per the premise of the OP
But what if I want my character to rely on skill?
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Well, we could either make Luck a skill, or use skill checks in place of save throws.
"The dragon exhales, and the air ignites around you! Make a Luck check!"
"The dragon exhales, and the air ignites around you! Make an Acrobatics check!"
Either way, I still don't see a need for a separate Save Throw mechanic. (There's nothing wrong with having the save throw mechanic; it just seems like it would be a little closer to the chopping block than, say, Hit Points.)
I said Levels, but I see your point.
On the other hand, auto roller is a thing now. Physical dice may not survive forever. I haven’t played in person since COVID, and I roll dice and encourage my players to, but two of use dice rollers on their phones, and it makes no difference to me the DM.
I did think about DM being the last to go, but I think they will try.
Peter BOSCO'S
Explorer
I'm not looking forward to the cut & paste substitution of "hippy" for "orc" in D&D Nixon version.YES! Finally, my dream* of having Richard Nixon DM my games will become a reality!
*As in, I fall asleep and this is what I see. .....don't judge. I can feel it. I feel the judging. Stop it.
David Howery
Hero
from a simple 'easy to remove from the rules system', alignment seems like the easiest to toss. It doesn't really have much weight in the system, and could be abandoned rather easily...
Scott Christian
Hero
Ability scores are the last to go. AI will take out the DM, and in the meantime, there are paid DMs, which are the same thing. Alignment is almost gone. Classes will be mix and match abilities. Levels and experience will drift to point buy. Races will be homogenized. But ability scores - nope, for nostalgia's sake, they will stay the same.
Now where are the books. I'm ready to give this a whirl.
Now where are the books. I'm ready to give this a whirl.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
There are dozens of RPGs out there that don't have alignment, DMs, classes, levels, races, and so forth. They don't have to have "Dungeons & Dragons" printed on the cover to be playable. If you try them out, let us know what you think!
Faolyn
(she/her)
Luck + Acrobatics, perhaps. Depending on how Luck is determined.
Of course, the 5e saves are almost like that. You're basically just really good (or lucky!) at using a couple of particular stats to get away from certain types of danger. Basically, they're just called saves out of tradition.
Scott Christian
Hero
I know, and I do try them. I was just making a joke.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think someday there will be strong enough support for playing without a GM that people will argue that they've got rid of the DM. There are a lot of ways to do, or not do, the prep, and just as many ways to determine results of actions.
LAter you change to "progression", but I don't know how that can possibly be meaningfully different from levels. I can certainly see a dnd in the future that either starts out as heroes and never quite gets to demi-god tier, or a game where you never really graduate from "zero" to "hero".
My own pick is Class. I really do think dnd requires classes to maintain any sort of identity. Not only that, there will always be plenty of non dnd classless games. DnD is the fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric, paladin, druid, bard, ranger, monk, warlock, etc. You can remove or add to the list, but if there aren't archetypical class packages that imply a certain approach and style for a specific character, it ain't dnd.
Wait, what?
pming
Legend
Hiya!
Ability Scores. For the simple fact that, without them, nothing else 'fits'...the exception being XP, but only for 3.x onward (prior, higher Ability Scores granted a bonus to XP gained). As time goes on, they COULD slowly change all the other 'mechanics' listed, bit by bit...and once those are all changed, THEN you might not need an Ability Score number to have any influence in the game.
I was tempted to say DM, but I thought... "That's like removing the 'board' from a board game, or 'cards' from a card game.... are they really board/card games if you do that"? IMNSHO, no, they aren't. They are now something different. Same with removing the DM from an RPG.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Ability Scores. For the simple fact that, without them, nothing else 'fits'...the exception being XP, but only for 3.x onward (prior, higher Ability Scores granted a bonus to XP gained). As time goes on, they COULD slowly change all the other 'mechanics' listed, bit by bit...and once those are all changed, THEN you might not need an Ability Score number to have any influence in the game.
I was tempted to say DM, but I thought... "That's like removing the 'board' from a board game, or 'cards' from a card game.... are they really board/card games if you do that"? IMNSHO, no, they aren't. They are now something different. Same with removing the DM from an RPG.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
