Whip Questions

[Kharne]

Hello folks, I am thinking about creating a character that dual wields a sword in his main hand and a whip in his off hand.

I'm wondering, however, if anyone understands the rules that this would involve?

What I mean is...since the whip is, technically, a ranged weapon, would the two-weapon fighting feat not apply to using it in the off hand for this character? Any other important rules regarding this that I may not have thought of?

Thanks for any help

 

[andargor]

Exactly. Since the whip is ranged, TWF and ITWF would not apply to it (but would to the sword).

You don't threaten with the whip, and you provoke AoOs when you use it. A normal whip only deals subdual damage to lightly armored or unarmored targets. I forget the Trip rules, but I believe you would get extra benefit with Improved Trip.

Look at the Lasher PrC from S&F, it's worth your while if you intend to use that whip a lot. Doesn't help with your problem, but it's cool

EDIT: Oh, also look at the whip-dagger for more damage. I believe that the "stock" whip/whip-dagger is size S. I think you can upgrade to M for more damage (or L if you go Half-Ogre)

Andargor

 

[Kharne]

You can take a 5' step between attacks right? The reason i'm asking is because i'm wondering if I could swing with the sword, take a 5' step, and use the whip?

Another question about two-weapon fighting and ranged weapons...can you use two weapon fighting to lower the penalties with the sword if you have a whip in the other hand? Does the feat work whenever you're holding a 'weapon' in each hand or does it only apply to when you're weilding two 'melee weapons'?

 

[andargor]

You can take a 5' step between attacks right? The reason i'm asking is because i'm wondering if I could swing with the sword, take a 5' step, and use the whip?

Yes, you can take a 5' step between attacks with the Full Attack action.

Another question about two-weapon fighting and ranged weapons...can you use two weapon fighting to lower the penalties with the sword if you have a whip in the other hand? Does the feat work whenever you're holding a 'weapon' in each hand or does it only apply to when you're weilding two 'melee weapons'?

Hmmm, I'm looking at the PHB, and it doesn't even mention melee weapons for TWF. Seeds of doubt. Even p.125 doesn't specify melee weapons...

(I cast Summon Hypersmurf IX)

Anyway, if it did, I'd allow it for the melee weapon as normal.

Andargor

 

[Hypersmurf]

(I cast Summon Hypersmurf IX)

BAMF!

The rule you're looking for is under "Heavy Crossbow". I'm away from my books, but I believe it's page 100.

The feat doesn't apply to range weapons, but it does apply to melee weapons.

Since a whip is a light weapon, wielding two whips would be a -4/-8 penalty.

With Ambidexterity, it would be -4/-4.

With TWF, no change, since both are ranged weapons.

With a sword and a whip (and all the feats), I'd personally call it -2/-4, since the TWF feat does apply to the penalties incurred by the sword.

But there is room for argument either way.

Especially when the d20 Modern version is thrown into the mix

-Hyp.

 

[Kharne]

Thanks for reminding me where that rule was Hypersmurf...I knew i'd read it before.

Thanks also to you Andargor. I had planned on taking a look at the lasher since i've really pretty much ignored that prestige after a quick read followed by "oh, neat" after I first bought the book. Now that i'm home and looking at the lasher I have two more questions...

It states under armor and weapons that "lashers are proficient with no armor and no shields". I'm assuming they mean that they GAIN no proficiency in armor and shields...not that they lose any proficiency. What do you guys think/know?

Also, the 'Crack of Fate' ability has me a little thrown with my concept here. The way it reads, it sounds to me like it would give my character in question a second attack with his off hand whip. Granted, it seems the penalty to hit should also be applied to the sword in the characters main hand as well. If we were looking at things the way Hypersmurf mentioned and implemented the -2/-4, it seems this ability would push it to -4/-6. And since by the time the character gained this ability he would have a BAB of +8/+3...his mods on his to hit with both weapons would come out:

(assuming 14 str and dex and including +1 for focus on each weapon -- fighter5/lasher3)

sword only: +11/+6
sword and whip: sword +9/+4, whip +7
sword and whip with 'crack of fate': sword +7/+2, whip +5/+3

Do you guys think that 'Crack of Fate' would work this way? If so, does my math seem correct?

 

[Hypersmurf]

sword and whip with 'crack of fate': sword +7/+2, whip +5/+3

Do you guys think that 'Crack of Fate' would work this way? If so, does my math seem correct?

Almost. Sword +7/+2, Whip +5/+5.

It's not an iterative -2 penalty for Crack of Fate, just a -2 penalty.

If you have the Rapid Shot feat, you could get in a third whip attack :

Sword +5/+0, Whip +3/+3/+3.

-Hyp.

 

[andargor]

The rule you're looking for is under "Heavy Crossbow". I'm away from my books, but I believe it's page 100.

GAAAH! Why, oh why do they do that? Worse than the DMCA.

That's why I'm a Groupie.

Originally posted by Kharne
It states under armor and weapons that "lashers are proficient with no armor and no shields". I'm assuming they mean that they GAIN no proficiency in armor and shields...not that they lose any proficiency. What do you guys think/know?

That's correct, it simply means that the PrC doesn't provide any additional proficiencies.

Hyp answered your other question.

Andargor

 

[Lord Pendragon]

(I cast Summon Hypersmurf IX)

*copies spell into spellbook*

 

[Darklone]

*copies spell into spellbook*

Bah, for these simple questions, Lvl IV would have been enough