Does anyone know if the new whirling barbarian class feature requires you to be proficient with your off hand weapon? There is no mention of it. Only that you treat one handed weapons and off hand weapons. Since you never make an attack roll with your off hand weapon it seems that wielding a waraxe or craghammer in your offhand without spending the feat is the way to go.
Whirling Barbarian Off Hand
- Thread starter Galeman
- Start date
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Yup, this is totally true. There's no reason you need to be able to hit the broad side of a barn with that second weapon. Unfortunately there's also no rule for how you figure out what the damage is. What happens on a crit? Unknown. What enhancement bonuses, properties, etc apply? Unknown. Its a big huge "we have no rules for this" issue. Not that it can't be made sense of enough to play it, but if you have rules lawyers at your table be prepared for serious pain and agony.
keterys
First Post
Well... I'd not be surprised if the rules do change, but...
1) Only the critical from the main hand applies, as that is the only weapon you made an attack roll with
2) Weapon Focus from the off-hand won't stack with Weapon Focus from the primary hand. Ditto enhancement bonus, item bonus, any kind of named bonus whatsoever due to stacking rules, as well as any kind of 'bonus to damage rolls' since there's only a single damage roll.
So the rules are actually pretty cut and dry, but expect table variation because of people assuming they work differently from that.
1) Only the critical from the main hand applies, as that is the only weapon you made an attack roll with
2) Weapon Focus from the off-hand won't stack with Weapon Focus from the primary hand. Ditto enhancement bonus, item bonus, any kind of named bonus whatsoever due to stacking rules, as well as any kind of 'bonus to damage rolls' since there's only a single damage roll.
So the rules are actually pretty cut and dry, but expect table variation because of people assuming they work differently from that.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Yeah, well, go check the threads on the WotC boards, you'll find your interpretation is only one of about 50 different ones that are equally not well supported by the rules. Basically there is no rule for it because the term "using" cannot be defined in reference to the "Whirling" series of powers.
keterys
First Post
Hrmm, last time I read those forums, I didn't actually see any dissenting rules opinions (though definitely people who thought it'd be more fun to just apply), but only checked shortly after it was launched.
That said, I'd be pretty impressed if someone could find some way to trump #2. Ie, a way to apply two feat bonuses or two item bonuses to the same damage roll. If you have a specific link, I'd appreciate it.
That said, I'd be pretty impressed if someone could find some way to trump #2. Ie, a way to apply two feat bonuses or two item bonuses to the same damage roll. If you have a specific link, I'd appreciate it.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, with #2 the question is the "using" question. You mentioned several different things there and I haven't seen anyone consider all of them, so I expect that some of what you're saying is true or at least true under some interpretations.
The nut of the issue really revolves around the secondary damage roll (which BTW IS a separate damage roll, it can't be part of the main damage roll as it doesn't even go against the same target in the case of Whirling Frenzy at least). Certainly it uses the W of the off-hand weapon. The question is what else is governed by the off-hand weapon? Which weapon's enhancement bonus do you use? Which one's crit properties would you use? Is it even possible to call the off-hand damage roll part of a crit? Etc.
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is the most complete thread on the subject over there. I think there is something approaching agreement that there are a couple of ways it could be handled. I didn't get the impression though that we came to any firm conclusions.
keterys
First Post
Yeah, I was referring to powers like Whirling Frenzy that go against one target, my bad. Whirling's Frenzy's [W] (primary) + [W] (off hand) + Str you wouldn't stack focus, any of it.
But, yes, if on multiple targets you would get armbands, etc same as usual sure. Which may be a good incentive to stop using a waraxe or whatever at higher level or once you've got your second magical weapon, since +2 from weapon focus and/or enhancement is likely worth more than dropping from 1d12 to 1d10 because of using a second bastard sword or whatever.
So, yes, the more interesting bits are when you're using the 'and someone else nearby takes off-hand damage'. Expect significant table variation there, until FAQ-ed.
But, yes, if on multiple targets you would get armbands, etc same as usual sure. Which may be a good incentive to stop using a waraxe or whatever at higher level or once you've got your second magical weapon, since +2 from weapon focus and/or enhancement is likely worth more than dropping from 1d12 to 1d10 because of using a second bastard sword or whatever.
So, yes, the more interesting bits are when you're using the 'and someone else nearby takes off-hand damage'. Expect significant table variation there, until FAQ-ed.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Right, well, WF would be FINE if the secondary went against the same target as the primary. Or at least it would be easier to sort out. The real wildness with WF is say you crit. Its not even clear that the damage to the secondary is part of the crit. Anyway, it is a bit cloudy. I think any reasonable DM can come up with a way to run it that works fine, but I pity the guy that has players that like to argue, lol. Of course they'll find SOMETHING to argue about anyhow...
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