Whirlwind Great Cleave?

[FCWesel]

Whirlwind Attack lets the character make one attack against all the opponents within 5 feet.

Just to clarify, does he make one roll and apply it versus the entire bunch or one attack, seperately rolled against the individuals?

Now, lets assume that a fighter is surounded by foes. He makes a whirlwind attack. Lets say that half of them fo down, does he get a Cleave (or great cleave) attempt on one(s) that didn't fall because of the one(s) that fell?

 

[aliensex]

As I read it, you make a seperate attack roll against each creature within 5ft.

As for allowing the Cleave, I have seen this debated back and forth. By the strict reading of Whirlwind, it doens't seem to preclude using any cleaving abilities, as you are just making melee attacks.

I, however, personally feel that Whirlwind should superceed any cleaving feats, so I don't allow both. YMMV.

 

[Yeoman]

Yep by the rules Whirlwind and Great Cleave is allowed. Many people don't allow it. I and every group I'm in have always allowed it, and it's never caused an issue with us.

As always YMMV.

 

[Demon Knight]

Noobie question alert!!!






Whats YMMV?

 

[MerakSpielman]

Ah, the famous "bucket of snails" scenario.

Bring a bucket of snails into combat against a huge big baddie. Get within 5' of the monster. Whirlwind attack the snails and take your Great Cleave against the baddie each time. Viola! 200+ attacks in one round.

And no DM on the planet will let you get away with it.


We make a single melee attack roll when doing whirlwind attack. That, to us, is the balancing factor. Do I do my regular 3 attacks and get to roll each one, practically guarenteeing at least 1 hit, or do I do a whirlwind attack against more enemies, but only get one roll and hope I don't roll low?

 

[Crothian]

Your Mileage May Very

I allow it as I think if the character is going to place that many feats into a vombo he should get something benificial out of it. Plus it makes the player happy and it's not so powerful that I as DM need to worry about it. By the time the fighter can do this the Wizard and Cleric have some impressive abilities as well.

 

[diaglo]

Ah, the famous "bucket of snails" scenario.

Bring a bucket of snails into combat against a huge big baddie. Get within 5' of the monster. Whirlwind attack the snails and take your Great Cleave against the baddie each time. Viola! 200+ attacks in one round.

And no DM on the planet will let you get away with it.


We make a single melee attack roll when doing whirlwind attack. That, to us, is the balancing factor. Do I do my regular 3 attacks and get to roll each one, practically guarenteeing at least 1 hit, or do I do a whirlwind attack against more enemies, but only get one roll and hope I don't roll low?

snails are fine size creatures. and they have natural armor. their AC is thru the roof.

that's why the bag of rats is better.

 

[aliensex]

The big problem is the King and his guards scenario. If the King is attacking with his lower level guards, they actually CAUSE more attacks against the king with the whirlwind+cleave combination. I just can't see why having you own GUARDS around you should cause that kind or problem.

 

[MerakSpielman]

snails are fine size creatures. and they have natural armor. their AC is thru the roof.

that's why the bag of rats is better.

But rats have too many hit points!

Lets go for slugs.

 

[Murrdox]

My ruling on Whirlwind/Cleave combination (I'm sure someone else has thought of this)

First of all - you DO get separate attacks for each target in the Whirlwind, by my ruling. It's the same thing as throwing three shuriken: One attack action, but multiple attack rolls.

Also, I rule that Whirlwind makes you make separate attacks, because there's nothing in the rules that says that instead of attacking some creatures, you couldn't instead attempt to trip one of them or disarm one of them. But this is another animal all together... back to the argument at hand.

Because Whirlwind is one action, any action you take while whirlwinding ends your whirlwind - including use of cleave or great cleave.

Basically what this means is that if you kill a foe, and decide to cleave, you don't get anymore whirlwind attacks. SO, you would most likely START your whirlwind on the toughest creature, and move to the weakest. That way, if you killed the weak creature with your last whirlwind attack, you could cleave to one of the other tougher foes you hit with whirlwind previously.

Also what this means is that if you decide to trip or disarm at any point during the whirlwind you CAN do this... but making the trip or disarm check ends the whirlwind.

Thoughts?