White Elves
- Thread starter LeifVignirsson
- Start date
LeifVignirsson
First Post
All right, this is much better! Let me see if I can address the questions and statements brought up:
No save for Sensitive skin: A good idea. The original idea from the original creator was very attached to the idea, but for the mechanics of 3E (or eventually 3.5), the idea of the -2 to all rolls (Attacks, AC, Saves, Skills, etc.) due to the pain of the sun on their sensitive skin is great. However, I think that the damage should stay the at the same level of 1d6. Remember that this damage will be negated if the character covers up, even in light clothing or by some other means.
Increasing spell-like abilites: Again, a throwback to the old AD&D days, looking at it further, that would have to be correct to not have that happen at all, to give them a majoirty of it at the creation of the character. As far as the SR, this only applies to one specific creature, Drow. Against all others, it doesn't even exist. Since they battle constantly, the SR would be in response to the Drow spell abilities.
And Blindsight radius? I wish I would have thought about that sooner, but this is why I put this up here for people to help. I would say that Blindsight would be around 10 ft., but then that can be adjusted to. Opinions? Comments? Critiques? Needing to tell me to get a life? Post on!
No save for Sensitive skin: A good idea. The original idea from the original creator was very attached to the idea, but for the mechanics of 3E (or eventually 3.5), the idea of the -2 to all rolls (Attacks, AC, Saves, Skills, etc.) due to the pain of the sun on their sensitive skin is great. However, I think that the damage should stay the at the same level of 1d6. Remember that this damage will be negated if the character covers up, even in light clothing or by some other means.
Increasing spell-like abilites: Again, a throwback to the old AD&D days, looking at it further, that would have to be correct to not have that happen at all, to give them a majoirty of it at the creation of the character. As far as the SR, this only applies to one specific creature, Drow. Against all others, it doesn't even exist. Since they battle constantly, the SR would be in response to the Drow spell abilities.
And Blindsight radius? I wish I would have thought about that sooner, but this is why I put this up here for people to help. I would say that Blindsight would be around 10 ft., but then that can be adjusted to. Opinions? Comments? Critiques? Needing to tell me to get a life? Post on!
SR is a resistance to magic in general or to magic of certain subclasses such as mind affecting maybe you should give them a bonus to saving throws vs drow magic or probably better against elf magic of all sorts drow have a long racial memory so they have access to almost every form of magic that elves had before the drow fell from grace, also if you still give them SR of any sort make it ad vance as they level up otherwise the drow clerics will tear them apart
Khorod
First Post
Remember that 1d6 damage is enough to kill white elf children/adolescents in an hour or two.
Personally, I suggest making that 1d6 subdual damage, at least. You generally don't die from sunburn in two hours... and a penalty to saves can take care of death by dehydration.
I agree with Guilt Puppy about Clairaudience/Color Spray. The concept of your Race changing as you level is pretty off-kilter for 3rd edition. Personally, I suggest finding some way to change that. Options include a feat or a White Elf-oriented prestige class.
You might also do something strange like say all White Elves know those spells, thus all of them can use Spell Completion items of those spells with no problem, and spellcasters automatically use them when they have the spell slots.
Personally, I suggest making that 1d6 subdual damage, at least. You generally don't die from sunburn in two hours... and a penalty to saves can take care of death by dehydration.
I agree with Guilt Puppy about Clairaudience/Color Spray. The concept of your Race changing as you level is pretty off-kilter for 3rd edition. Personally, I suggest finding some way to change that. Options include a feat or a White Elf-oriented prestige class.
You might also do something strange like say all White Elves know those spells, thus all of them can use Spell Completion items of those spells with no problem, and spellcasters automatically use them when they have the spell slots.
LeifVignirsson
First Post
All right, I am liking you guys already! I should do this again with another race sometime soon.
Ok, let me address the new postings...
SR vs. Save bonus:
Of course, this was created in AD&D terms by Cyric, when SR or MR covered all spells. Now with the rule change I can see that being a bit more advantageous for White Elves in general having bonuses vs. Drow magic... He had in mind that this was the underground elven answer to the Drow, so I think that he molded them to fit the opponents. Now the real question in what level of bonus do I give? A +2 bonus, while decent, might not be what he had in mind. However, I don't want to go all out of whack and give too much either. Something for me to ponder as I sleep.
Sensitivity/Damage:
You guys are great on this cause I had been thinking about this for a while as well. I still want to be true to the actual creators idea, but I do like the idea of subdual damage instead of regular damage. However, much like a person walking through the Mojave at noon, the White Elf would have to make a save to see if they even survive being cooked. It isn't JUST a sunburn, they are truly cooking inside, even in something considered mild to most surface dwellers. Let's say that the save should be Fort Save DC 10 + rounds exposed to sunlight.
So, if Biff the White Elf had been out for 5 rounds and been dropped to zero, he would have to make a Fort save of 15 to survive. Make it easy to meet for the beginning characters, but something that is still a deterrent for not being covered. Now what I need to hear is whether or not that save threshold is too low, just right or even too high?
Oh my, look at the time... 12:40 am and I still have to get up early to tear apart a mattress... ugh! Thanks for all the input, I really do appreciate it from everyone.
Ok, let me address the new postings...
SR vs. Save bonus:
Of course, this was created in AD&D terms by Cyric, when SR or MR covered all spells. Now with the rule change I can see that being a bit more advantageous for White Elves in general having bonuses vs. Drow magic... He had in mind that this was the underground elven answer to the Drow, so I think that he molded them to fit the opponents. Now the real question in what level of bonus do I give? A +2 bonus, while decent, might not be what he had in mind. However, I don't want to go all out of whack and give too much either. Something for me to ponder as I sleep.
Sensitivity/Damage:
You guys are great on this cause I had been thinking about this for a while as well. I still want to be true to the actual creators idea, but I do like the idea of subdual damage instead of regular damage. However, much like a person walking through the Mojave at noon, the White Elf would have to make a save to see if they even survive being cooked. It isn't JUST a sunburn, they are truly cooking inside, even in something considered mild to most surface dwellers. Let's say that the save should be Fort Save DC 10 + rounds exposed to sunlight.
So, if Biff the White Elf had been out for 5 rounds and been dropped to zero, he would have to make a Fort save of 15 to survive. Make it easy to meet for the beginning characters, but something that is still a deterrent for not being covered. Now what I need to hear is whether or not that save threshold is too low, just right or even too high?
Oh my, look at the time... 12:40 am and I still have to get up early to tear apart a mattress... ugh! Thanks for all the input, I really do appreciate it from everyone.
LeifVignirsson
First Post
DOH! I forgot one more thing, thank goodness I didn't log off...
Colorspray/Clairaudience issue:
These were things that I think Cyric was trying to do in order to make them stand out from the Drow originally, though I never really used the Colorspray myself because my character was... shocking and surprising... above ground. The Clairaudience DID come in handy, but I can see where the issues would come up with that a bit... So, with that in mind, as I am hacking away a mattress, maybe I can come up with an alternate that could be used and have them all as introductory spells, no progessive spells. Then I would have to determine what level they could cast it at... Then I would have to determine who's fault it is for me tearing apart a mattress in the first place... No, wait... That is me... Curse my Nordic pride!
Colorspray/Clairaudience issue:
These were things that I think Cyric was trying to do in order to make them stand out from the Drow originally, though I never really used the Colorspray myself because my character was... shocking and surprising... above ground. The Clairaudience DID come in handy, but I can see where the issues would come up with that a bit... So, with that in mind, as I am hacking away a mattress, maybe I can come up with an alternate that could be used and have them all as introductory spells, no progessive spells. Then I would have to determine what level they could cast it at... Then I would have to determine who's fault it is for me tearing apart a mattress in the first place... No, wait... That is me... Curse my Nordic pride!
Khaalis said:
That's not entirely true.
Check out Holy Aura, Shield of Law, Unholy Aura, Cloak of Chaos (as examples).
Holy Aura, for instance, (along with other abilities) grants SR against evil spells (i.e. spells with an evil descriptor) and spells cast by evil creatures.
So there is some small presedant there for granting SR against a certain type of spell or spell cast by a certain type of person.
But, yes, these are perhaps the only few examples out there so there isn't a huge basis for this divergance. In almost all other cases, as said, a being has SR or does not, period.
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LeifVignirsson said:
Ok, the ever ongoing argument over this penalty is exactly why I earlier recommended the use of the "Existing" mechanics for this. It is ALWAYS better to use an existing rule than to make up a new one, especially since White Elves AREN'T Vampires. They shouldn't Spontaneously Combust in sunlight, which is basically what your rule is saying that they do.
For ease, I quote the DMG p.86:
HEAT DANGERS:
There is the basic mechanic of Heat/Sun exposure.
If you insist on sticking to the fact that the Elves die in sunlight, which I think is an OVERLY sever effect, I would suggest the following. With this most of the elves would die in less than an hour (assuming all failed saves).
Extreme Heat Exposure:
The next level, which is about the same as what you currently have - making them the equivalent of Vampires. With this the elves would die in roughly 3-4 minutes (assuming all failed saves).
Abysmal Heat Exposure:
Personally I think is way too extreme and rather silly as a racial disadvantage. It means that they are basically vampires and that Sunlight is like FIRE. Thats a wee-bit extreme, especially since in comparison to every other subterranean creature in existence - its just outright ABSURD.
My personal choice for this, to keep it BALANCED with the other subterrainian racial penalties would be as follows, except that it is applied any time they are exposed to the sun, regardless of the temperature. With this the elves would die after roughly 4-5 hours (assuming all failed saves)
Very Hot:
Just my thoughts. If you were to keep the more extreme 1d6 damage - basically dead in a few minutes to an hour, I wouldnt touch the race with a 10' pole.
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LeifVignirsson
First Post
Great! Khalis, that is great to hear form you, I understand your concerns on the matter and I do appreciate it greatly. Now, let me see if I can address these concerns for you.
New rule vs. DMG rules:
I agree that the rule in the DMG on pg. 86 would be handy and easy to use since it is an already existing rule, but we are forgetting things on this matter. The new penalty can be avoided all together by just covering up. A thin hooded cloak would protect the sun, or even wearing an thin bodysuit with gloves (that is what my character did). This isn't "White Elf walks out in sun, POOF, dead.", this is "White elf needs to cover up or the sensitive skin will kill him." Nor am I trying to treat them as vampires per say, though if you had been underground for many years and came up to the surface, you would have the threat of dying too.
As far as the chitlins... er, children go, there can be a way to work around that. White elf children generally stay underground with their parents and villages, though as with all children they wonder and stray. Almost all white elves know of the dangers of not covering up, so a majority of those children would have clothing anyway to protect them. If they do not, then they learn a harsh lesson, don't they? But Leif, you might be asking yourself, what about children that would be born to White Elves on the surface? Well, that is where the DMG rule would come in handy because it would take a few generations for the White Elf to become a regular elf as far as pigmentation is concerned. The next generation would be less and less until they are no longer White Elves, but Tan Elves.
However, I will kick that around in my mind just to be sure that this is the direction that the creator wanted to go, but I certainly hope that this snag on the damage issue isn't keeping anyone from enjoying Cyric's race. It is a good race made with the best of intentions and as a playtester and user of this race, I enjoy it as well and I was hoping that the joy could be spread to others.
Don't worry, we will get everything smoothed out and make it playable!
New rule vs. DMG rules:
I agree that the rule in the DMG on pg. 86 would be handy and easy to use since it is an already existing rule, but we are forgetting things on this matter. The new penalty can be avoided all together by just covering up. A thin hooded cloak would protect the sun, or even wearing an thin bodysuit with gloves (that is what my character did). This isn't "White Elf walks out in sun, POOF, dead.", this is "White elf needs to cover up or the sensitive skin will kill him." Nor am I trying to treat them as vampires per say, though if you had been underground for many years and came up to the surface, you would have the threat of dying too.
As far as the chitlins... er, children go, there can be a way to work around that. White elf children generally stay underground with their parents and villages, though as with all children they wonder and stray. Almost all white elves know of the dangers of not covering up, so a majority of those children would have clothing anyway to protect them. If they do not, then they learn a harsh lesson, don't they? But Leif, you might be asking yourself, what about children that would be born to White Elves on the surface? Well, that is where the DMG rule would come in handy because it would take a few generations for the White Elf to become a regular elf as far as pigmentation is concerned. The next generation would be less and less until they are no longer White Elves, but Tan Elves.
However, I will kick that around in my mind just to be sure that this is the direction that the creator wanted to go, but I certainly hope that this snag on the damage issue isn't keeping anyone from enjoying Cyric's race. It is a good race made with the best of intentions and as a playtester and user of this race, I enjoy it as well and I was hoping that the joy could be spread to others.
Don't worry, we will get everything smoothed out and make it playable!
LeifVignirsson
First Post
Ok, here is what I came up as the adjusted White Elf with all of your suggestions. I have tinkered with most of them, but I kept the idea of sensitive skin with a new way to determine the outcome. The damage is subdual and there is a chance to survive even if overexposed. Tell me what you guys think, thanks for all the input!
WHITE ELF RACIAL TRAITS (SIGHTED):
· +4 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Charisma, -2 to Constitution and Strength.
· Medium-size: As Medium-sized creatures, White Elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size
· White Elf base speed is 30 feet
· Low-Light Vision: White Elves with sight can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight and similar conditions of poor illumination.
· Proficient with either longsword or rapier.
· Spell-like abilities: White Elves can cast once per day at 1st level, Darkness, Light and Spider Climb. These abilities are as the spells cast by a wizard of the White Elves character level.
· Spell resistance: White Elves receive a +2 bonus for all saves vs. Drow magic (divine and arcane). Against all other magic, the White Elf does not receive the bonus.
· Sensitive skin: White Elves that are exposed to the sun without proper protection (layer of clothing, cloak, etc) for more than an hour must make a Fort save (DC 10) or suffer a –2 to all rolls to the skin blistering. For every round after the save, the White Elf takes 1d6 subdual damage until either they cover up or reach 0 hps. If the White Elf reaches 0 hps, they must make another Fort save (DC10 + rounds exposed). Success means character survived, failure means death
- Automatic Languages: Elvish and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Bugbear, Dwarven, Goblin, Illithid, Kuo-toa, Orcish, Sign Language and Svirfneblin.
· Favored Class: Wizard. A multi-classed White Elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether they suffer experience penalty for multiclassing.
· ECL: Sighted White Elves – 1
WHITE ELF RACIAL TRAITS (BLIND):
· +4 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Charisma, -2 to Constitution and Strength.
· Medium-size: As Medium-sized creatures, White Elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size
· White Elf base speed is 30 feet
· Blindsight: White Elves without sight benefit from the Blindsight, 10 ft. radius.
· Proficient with either longsword or rapier.
· Spell-like abilities: White Elves can cast once per day at 1st level, Darkness, Light and Spider Climb. These abilities are as the spells cast by a wizard of the White Elves character level.
· Spell resistance: White Elves receive a +2 bonus for all saves vs. Drow magic (divine and arcane). Against all other magic, the White Elf does not receive the bonus.
· Sensitive skin: White Elves that are exposed to the sun without proper protection (layer of clothing, cloak, etc) for more than an hour must make a Fort save (DC 10) or suffer a –2 to all rolls to the skin blistering. For every round after the save, the White Elf takes 1d6 subdual damage until either they cover up or reach 0 hps. If the White Elf reaches 0 hps, they must make another Fort save (DC10 + rounds exposed). Success means character survived, failure means death.
· -2 penalty to attack and AC for those White Elves that are blind when they are attacked by either sound or smell based attack, due to their hyper sensitive .
· Due to the harsh environment and the need to adapt to finding their way through the dark tunnels of the Underdark, White Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to all Survival and Intuit Direction skill checks.
- Due to the Blind White Elf's adaptation to the new environment and the development of Blindsight, they also gain a +4 racial bonus to all Listen skill checks.
· Automatic Languages: Elvish and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Bugbear, Dwarven, Goblin, Illithid, Kuo-toa, Orcish, Sign Language and Svirfneblin.
· Favored Class: Wizard. A multi-classed White Elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether they suffer experience penalty for multiclassing.
· ECL: Blind White Elves – 2
WHITE ELF RACIAL TRAITS (SIGHTED):
· +4 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Charisma, -2 to Constitution and Strength.
· Medium-size: As Medium-sized creatures, White Elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size
· White Elf base speed is 30 feet
· Low-Light Vision: White Elves with sight can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight and similar conditions of poor illumination.
· Proficient with either longsword or rapier.
· Spell-like abilities: White Elves can cast once per day at 1st level, Darkness, Light and Spider Climb. These abilities are as the spells cast by a wizard of the White Elves character level.
· Spell resistance: White Elves receive a +2 bonus for all saves vs. Drow magic (divine and arcane). Against all other magic, the White Elf does not receive the bonus.
· Sensitive skin: White Elves that are exposed to the sun without proper protection (layer of clothing, cloak, etc) for more than an hour must make a Fort save (DC 10) or suffer a –2 to all rolls to the skin blistering. For every round after the save, the White Elf takes 1d6 subdual damage until either they cover up or reach 0 hps. If the White Elf reaches 0 hps, they must make another Fort save (DC10 + rounds exposed). Success means character survived, failure means death
- Automatic Languages: Elvish and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Bugbear, Dwarven, Goblin, Illithid, Kuo-toa, Orcish, Sign Language and Svirfneblin.
· Favored Class: Wizard. A multi-classed White Elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether they suffer experience penalty for multiclassing.
· ECL: Sighted White Elves – 1
WHITE ELF RACIAL TRAITS (BLIND):
· +4 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Charisma, -2 to Constitution and Strength.
· Medium-size: As Medium-sized creatures, White Elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size
· White Elf base speed is 30 feet
· Blindsight: White Elves without sight benefit from the Blindsight, 10 ft. radius.
· Proficient with either longsword or rapier.
· Spell-like abilities: White Elves can cast once per day at 1st level, Darkness, Light and Spider Climb. These abilities are as the spells cast by a wizard of the White Elves character level.
· Spell resistance: White Elves receive a +2 bonus for all saves vs. Drow magic (divine and arcane). Against all other magic, the White Elf does not receive the bonus.
· Sensitive skin: White Elves that are exposed to the sun without proper protection (layer of clothing, cloak, etc) for more than an hour must make a Fort save (DC 10) or suffer a –2 to all rolls to the skin blistering. For every round after the save, the White Elf takes 1d6 subdual damage until either they cover up or reach 0 hps. If the White Elf reaches 0 hps, they must make another Fort save (DC10 + rounds exposed). Success means character survived, failure means death.
· -2 penalty to attack and AC for those White Elves that are blind when they are attacked by either sound or smell based attack, due to their hyper sensitive .
· Due to the harsh environment and the need to adapt to finding their way through the dark tunnels of the Underdark, White Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to all Survival and Intuit Direction skill checks.
- Due to the Blind White Elf's adaptation to the new environment and the development of Blindsight, they also gain a +4 racial bonus to all Listen skill checks.
· Automatic Languages: Elvish and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Bugbear, Dwarven, Goblin, Illithid, Kuo-toa, Orcish, Sign Language and Svirfneblin.
· Favored Class: Wizard. A multi-classed White Elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether they suffer experience penalty for multiclassing.
· ECL: Blind White Elves – 2
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