White Wolf can take their Web Extras & Shove it!

[Vraille Darkfang]

Not real happy now.

Not real mad either.

More really annoyed.

Last night I picked up the World of Warcraft Monster Guide (I have a thing for monster books).

I already have the older Manual of Monsters book (in fact I had it right beside me to see what had changed).

A few things swung my Decision:

1. WotC Magic Item Compendium wasn't out yet.

2. The Monster Guide didn't have as much overlap as I'd thought, I could still use both books.

3. My personal issues with buying almost every monster book there is.

4. Full Color with good artwork. Monster books are the one RPG element where Art can make/break for me.

5. WEB EXTRAS in Big BOLD Letters. Quote "This book has a lot of monsters so many, in fact, that they didn't all fit in the book. Log on to to www.warcraftrpg.com for dozens more pages of monsters -- animals & vermin" and "Cloud serpents are magical wind serpents (see the web extras)"

The book repeatedly mentions all the Web Extras that are available. So I pick this book up.


Today, after I get off work I log on to start getting my Freebies on.

Dragon of Faeruns. Great.

Cityscape. Really cool.

WoW Monster guide..... WTF. Is it out yet? I can't find it anywhere on the S&S, WW, or WoW websites. I finally notice a little corner blurb "Monster Guide Extra is out but...." It takes me to their forums.

Turns out the Web EXTRAS are just that. EXTRA. As in EXTRA cost to Download. They want 4 bucks for 33 pages (most of which is SRD Animals & Vermin). No artwork, but "Full COLOR" Ohhhh. Colored fonts. You have to go to page 4 or so to even get the index, the product page seems to have no mention of the contents of the Web Extras.

I'll wrap this up. I have well over 100 RPG books. This is the first to define "Web Extra" as "pay more for this that got left on the cutting room floor" To be honest I don't think the average person who read that statement the way they put it would have seen it as something they were going to have to pay for.

It was misleading & seems a little money grubbing (there is a reason I PLAY WW, but never bought a single WoD Book).

I feel gipped. But I learned something.

Any mention I ever see in a WW product about Addtional Web Material will now go in the Minus column of my decision making.

White Wolf has been knocked down ANOTHER peg on my list of Favorite Companies (Actually with the loss of Necromancer, they almost fallen down to the Rarely ever buy list).

To use the Same Terminology that WotC, Green Ronin, THEMSELVES, Mongoose, Goodman Games, Atlas Games, Chaosium, Privateer Press, AEG, Fantasy Flight Games, Fast Forward Entertainment for Grief's Sake! use to indicate FREE STUFF HERE! is just plain unethical.

(ALL the compaines I mentioned have at least 1 or more books on my shelf with "Extra Web" mentions that lead to free downloads).

Would I have bought the Monster Guide anyway?

Yes, the full color sealed the deal. If it was Black & White, it would have been the Web Extras that's sold me.

I can say I am now less likely to buy anything with the Sword & Sorcery Logo than I was 24 hours ago.

I tend to shy away from companies that make sneaky misleading comments. Thus why I stopped buying from FFE, and have only just begun to buy Mongoose again.

I mean I don't really care. It bugs me. I feel duped & tricked. (PS, customers who feel duped don't tend to become repeat customers).

This is just a warning:

Warcraft, Monster Guide's references to Web Extras, despite being coached in language we've come to expect means bonus, free supplementary information...

It isn't. Thier WEB EXTRAS will cost you 4 bucks extra. Take that into effect when purchasing.

I wish I had (again I'd have still bought, it, but it would have been a much closer sale).

 

[jmucchiello]

Have you made your feelings know on the company's message boards? Complaining here will have no impact. Though I suppose it could make you feel better to just vent. How you feeling now?

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Have you made your feelings know on the company's message boards? Complaining here will have no impact. Though I suppose it could make you feel better to just vent. How you feeling now?

1. I'm not registered there.

2. They are getting more than enough 'Feedback' on that thread.

3. I could care less. I'm more annoyed than ticked off. I have a friend who has been big into World of Darkness since the day it came out. I've learned to play Mage, Werewolf, and Vampire from him. After everything he has told me about WW, I should not have been the least bit surprised they pulled this. WW seems to spend an inordinate time ticking off 50% of their customers at any given time. The seem to have mastered the art of Roating that 50% so they all keep bying their stuff. (His comments about the new, improved WoD would have to be severely edited to get posted here).

4. This is just a warning. In reality my "Venting" took about 5 minutes, or as long as it took to read the thread on WW Forums.

5. I got a good book for a good price. Anything else would have been a bonus. The fact they implied a bonus, that in reality cost extra is their perogative.

I have no problem with offering "Bonus Material" for additional cost, just make that clear from the get go.

How would you feel about a new LotR Extended DVD edition that had big letters on the back about EXTRA WEB MATERIAL!!!!!.... And it took you to I-Tunes where you could buy scenes that got cut from the movie?

I have no problem with clearly stating "Extra stuff is available for purchase" I actually preefer it. I'd love to see moer supprot for the Classes mentioned in the Complete Series in future books. Heck the Monster Guide has a List by CR that includes Monsters from the Alliance Guide, Horde Guide and other sources.

I'm annoyed they used verbage that has come to mean one thing in common usage, but quite another if taken literally.

Web Extras. Means, Extras that are available on the Web. No mention of price exists. While I have a dozen or so (at least) that say Web Extras that are free, the only way you know for sure is "Free Web Extras"

White Wolf found a hole & is trying to Drive 3.99 per WoW Player through it. From all the stories my freind has told me, I'm not surprised.

I took a lot of words to say "Hey, this Book's Web Extras aren't free!", but...

1. My wife is sick, thus she has 100% control of the TV remote. I hate Lifetime Movie Network

2. You get Post Counts by the word, right?

3. If I stay up all night, I'll be the first to post the new Order of the Stick is up Thread! The first one wins some sort of prize, doesn't he/she/it?

 

[Sir Elton]

Dang it. I'm not working with a company like that.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Everyone is trying to Nickle and Dime you to death anymore these days.

 

[Master of the Game]

They did much the same thing with Scroll of the Monk for the Exalted line. If you want the stuff that wasn't good enough to make it into the book, you can buy it for $7 as The Imperfect Lotus.

 

[Shining Dragon]

Meh.

Unless they advertised the extra as "Free Web Extra" then its not a big deal.

I wonder how they should have advertised it as costing money?

Unfree Web Extra?

Web Extra That Will Cost You Some Money?

 

[Mouseferatu]

I wonder how they should have advertised it as costing money?

Unfree Web Extra?

Web Extra That Will Cost You Some Money?

Much as I'd love to jump in and defend WW, the fact is, "extra" certainly implies free.

If they were going to charge for it, the material should have been advertised as "an electronic-only product" that was heavily tied to the book. It shouldn't have been advertised as an "extra" at all.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

"Web supplement" might have been a little more accurate.

In any case, it's a little strange that they felt they had to charge for this. Why isn't this just billed to marketing as a marketing expense?

 

[Shining Dragon]

Much as I'd love to jump in and defend WW, the fact is, "extra" certainly implies free.

If they were going to charge for it, the material should have been advertised as "an electronic-only product" that was heavily tied to the book. It shouldn't have been advertised as an "extra" at all.

Now that you point it out... you are correct.

But still I'm not going to buy something in the hopes of getting something else for free. The product should be able to stand on its own.