White Wolf viciously attacks everyone who roleplays for fun

[Smokingmonkee]

Can't we all just get along?

if WoD products annoy you, and you dislike the game in general, don't buy them.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement

 

[Darkness]

Everything I ever said on RPG.net is now vindicated.

You might have an axe to grind after being banned from RPG.net but EN World is not the place for it. Nor is it the place for flame-baiting or White Wolf bashing, which seems to have been the intention behind this thread.
I'm glad and proud that our users didn't take the bait.

 

[Nisarg]

The real irony of this is that some of the worst munchkins are actually Vampire players

Vampire, exalted, werewolf.. damn near everything WW publishes with its house system.
Ironically, their D20 products tend not to be very munchkiny, but I've also found them to really suck..IMO...

This is CLEARLY an attack though; think about it: First of all they use the old chestnut of "roll-playing/role-playing", something I thought was outlawed around 1986, and then they go on to say that not only should their readers not engage in the crime of considering Vampire a game and put fun over pseudo-intellectual pretentiousness, but they should also be condescending and patronizing to those who do. They should clearly see themselves as superior to the D&D players, but should feel pity rather than hate for them (wow, thanks for that), and should try to reform these ignorant savages from their false ways to the truth.

Its one of the most insanely pretentious comments I've ever seen in any RPG book from a major publisher, Ever.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

WotC now holds that spot, but monitarily I'm not sure who makes more money off RPG's...WW or WotC (It seems a W is required for success...note...to....self ).

Both TSR and WotC can be said to have MORE than "equalled" WW's success. There was only a brief period in the 90s where WW might have been doing better than TSR (I believe Vampire Revised outsold AD&D for about all of one month). WW has never done better than Wizards since Wizards took over from TSR.
WoTC makes FAR more money than WW.

You might just be right about the Ws, however.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

That's about as far from a vicious attack as you can get. A pretentious paragraph in another game is hardly worth this much rhetoric. Personally, I save my righteous indignation for subjects that deserve it.

If that paragraph makes you mad, go hang out at the Indie RPG messageboard The Forge. There's a lot of cool people there, but there's also some gaming elitists, and you used to hear that sort of comment quite a bit.

With all due respect Piratecat, there is a difference. The Forge routinely has much worse stuff than what was in the new WoD book, granted.
However:

The Forge is a tiny insignificant group of pseudointellectuals with absolutely no influence in the gaming community as a whole.
White Wolf, on the other hand, is still the second-largest company in the entirely industry.

So: when the local internet fanboy haters say something, its not likely to matter as much as when a company that many many people (including a few new people who don't know better) will be reading and accepting. White Wolf's continuing influence in the gaming hobby is what makes the divisiveness and hatefulness of their statements such a problem.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

I would argue that divisiveness tends to hurt all of us. I have played a few White Wolf games and enjoyed them. I have had D&D games where there was no dice-rolling and hours of role-playing and diplomacy. On other nights, I have had characters participate in battle after bloody battle.

If we exclude people with different playing styles or who like different games, then everyone loses. I think that we all have something to learn from each other. However, sometimes divisiveness and elitism get into the way of people having fun.

It goes beyond "attacking different styles".. it is the disgusting insinuations that only their system could allow for an intelligent style of play. It is the insinuation that other games (D&D, for example) can ONLY be used to play completely mindless hack n' slash that is totally dependent to the rules.

The truth is, of course, that it is just as easy to ignore the rules in D&D as it is in Storyteller, just as easy to create a sophisticated game about social or political themes, EASIER to make that game be the way you want rather than the way certain designers want, and there is no more dice rolling on principle in either game.

Its one of the great lies of the gaming world that WW's system is in any way rules-lite. Over the Edge is rules lite, Feng Shui is rules-lite, Amber is rules lite. WW's system devotes huge numbers of pages to powers, attributes, charms, combat; and requires complex mechanics and dice-rolling. You might as well claim GURPS or HERO is rules-lite.

D&D players are no less intellectual than WW players, we're just less pretentious.
D&D players don't need to be "helped" to role play better, we've been doing it just fine on our own for 15 years longer than WoD has been around, thank you very much.

And really, "role-playing not roll-playing"?? What is this, 1983?? If ever a phrase has been beaten to death in roleplaying its that.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

I work for White Wolf, and am at the heart of the new World of Darkness team, and therefore every word printed in a World of Darkness book must speak for my soul. And yet... I've written Sword and Sorcery stuff for D&D as well, and even recruited the inestimable (contact) as a consultant on a couple of Relics & Rituals books, based on a friendship that grew out of EnWorld.

My goodness, I've viciously attacked myself!
I guess I'll get around to expressing the howl of anguish and hatred for everything that I love that wells up within my blackened soul later, if that's okay with you.

If you are indeed the person who wrote those words, or who approved them, or were part of the team, you could explain to us why now, after YEARS of claiming they were no longer elitist; after years of WW people on the forums claiming that those who attacked them as pretentious were just outdated from the bad old Rein·Hagen days, why after all that.. WW chose NOW to publish what is without a doubt the MOST pretentious statement I ever heard from them?

And yes, indeed, if you are the D&D player you claim you have attacked yourself. I would like to know why? Why did you feel the need to say that other games are just about roll-playing, why did you feel the need to insinuate that non-WW players don't know how to role-play, and should be pitied (but not despised---gee, great, thanks for that), and should be "helped" with their terrible disability of not being WW-players, so that they can go from making the mistake of "just playing for fun" to being educated in how to put pretentiousness ahead of fun in the correct WW fashion?

Yes, sir, you do indeed have a lot to answer for.

Nisarg

 

[Wraith Form]

I could not possibly care less. I reserve my outrage for things that matter in my life.

Exactly. "Choose your battles," as they say.

 

[Shemeska]

Wow, and I only thought that you trolled Planescape threads. Branching out to WW now, 'grats! Admittedly, this thread has been hilarious.

In other news, does anyone know where I can get my very own ivory tower? I don't have one and I demand recompense for this injustice.

 

[Mean DM]

Straw man