D&D 4E Who else is going to be a deserter when 4e comes out?

[JoeGKushner]

But some are mentioning that 4th ed may come out in 2010 which would make it ten years no? Are does the 3.5 conversion mean WoTC needs to add a few more years?

I can't believe that of all people, I'm defending the line of reasoning you are condemning. The problem is not that WotC will be releasing a new game. The problem is that so many people have so much invested with 3rd edition that they may not be willing to abandon it because WotC decides to hit the reset button. I think it was an easier sell going from 1E to 2E because the game didn't change so much that the old materials became completely obsolete. 2E to 3E was an easy transition because there was over a decade invested in 2E and everyone was well aware what all of the flaws were in the system. 3E to 4E may be a tougher sell because 3.5 has been out for well under a decade and it works just fine. It's a little top heavy, but combat can still move at a good clip if both the DM and the players are well acquainted with the rules.

Anyway, the question isn't whether or not there should be an organized boycot, but whether people will be willing to upgrade when the time comes.

 

[BryonD]

But there seems to be a default assumption that the hypothetical 4e will be a radical departure from 3e, and that they won't be readily compatible. I don't accept that as truth, or even likely. Any 4e that does appear, IMHO, will be an incremental change with errata...not unlike 3.5.

Yep again.

Thats certainly what I'm hoping (and betting).
If they can grow and refine the game every few years, I'll happily give them the cash.

 

[diaglo]

But there seems to be a default assumption that the hypothetical 4e will be a radical departure from 3e, and that they won't be readily compatible. I don't accept that as truth, or even likely. Any 4e that does appear, IMHO, will be an incremental change with errata...not unlike 3.5. You can still use 3.0 material in 3.5 with a minimum of fuss....something I find myself doing often, because the ELH needs conversion. Yes, there are changes all over the place...but I didn't have Tasha's Hideous Laughter memorized under 3e, for example, so the changes to 3.5 version aren't exactly earth-shattering.

I'm not saying I don't appreciate what you're saying...I just don't think the differences will be so drastic as to be a significant negative impact on sales.

Side note: If you want to enjoy some real comedy, go to google and search the newsgroups for old pre-3e discussions on r.g.f.dnd and how 3e was going to kill us all. The claims by the naysayers then makes for some high comedy, in retrospect.

go to Dragon Magazine in 1986 thru early 1989. 2edADnD was going to kill T$R...


oh, wait it did. it just took 11 years of beating the poor dead horse.

nevermind....

 

[Taluron]

It's the perils of being a personality in this (or any) industry that involves the public and fans. When you talk, people may quote you to prove their point. This is especially true about Monte since he's, well.... he's Monte. He wrote the DMG, he's the founder and proprietor at Malhavoc, and he's arguably one of the most gifted game designers in the business. When Monte talks, people listen.

Well, my game designer is Monte Cooke, and Monte Cooke says...
[hushed silence as everyone stops to listen]

 

[Razz]

I'll continue to play D&D but 3.5 only until me and my friends are burnt out of playing 3.5 But none of us will ever move on to 4E. I, too, will desert D&D when 4E is released.

I don't care how much better the system is. The game is currently fine the way it is now, and those of you who think otherwise probably don't own Unearthed Arcana (which is "4E" to me) or make your own house rules.

Think about what would happen to the SRD and Open Gaming License when 4E comes out? Everyone will be screwed, not just 3.5 players and DMs.

See, I can't keep switching to new editions. I switched from 2E after purchasing over 2.5k of books, realized 3E is the epitome of D&D, and switched to 3E, then 3.5. I am never going to do that again when a 4E comes out. I mean, look at ther average life expectancy. If they keep switching editions too fast, it'll be 8th edition by the time I am 75. That's a lot of wasted money on 7th and below.

Besides, can anyone even give me a good reason why 4E needs to be released at all? Currently, the game cannot evolve anymore. Unearthed Arcana helped out with those that didn't like the current system and we have OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS everywhere we go for our games. What the hell could 4E do that a few house rules and few supplements COULDN'T do?!

My point exactly.

 

[Razz]

But there seems to be a default assumption that the hypothetical 4e will be a radical departure from 3e, and that they won't be readily compatible. I don't accept that as truth, or even likely. Any 4e that does appear, IMHO, will be an incremental change with errata...not unlike 3.5.

If this is actually the case with 4E then I am cool with it as well. Minor changes rather than complete upheavals like the 2E-3E transaction I can deal with.

 

[WizarDru]

Well, my game designer is Monte Cooke, and Monte Cooke says...
[hushed silence as everyone stops to listen]

You are so old.
There are people on this board who weren't born when that was out.
Unfortunately, I'm old, too.

 

[WizarDru]

Besides, can anyone even give me a good reason why 4E needs to be released at all?

Depends on whose perspective you're looking at. WotC has a great reason...to make money and keep in business. Every other reason is secondary.

Currently, the game cannot evolve anymore. Unearthed Arcana helped out with those that didn't like the current system and we have OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS everywhere we go for our games. What the hell could 4E do that a few house rules and few supplements COULDN'T do?!

It can't? Really? I beg to differ.

If fourth edition gave me third edition, but with better handling of Epic levels; I'd buy it in seconds. If fourth edition gave me a better Monster creation system; I'd have it on preorder. If fourth edition gave me MADE THE GAME EASIER TO RUN AT HIGH LEVELS AND STREAMLINED PLAY THEREIN, I'd be camped out at the game store door on release day. There are other things that could be improved or added.

I consider 3.5 to be the best D&D that has ever been...but it has plenty of room for growth. It isn't, to me, about better options, but about iterative improvment. Just because I haven't foreseen all the possible improvements doesn't mean any couldn't be made. 3.0s strength was in throwing out many old design assumptions, IMHO, while maintaining core concepts. I would expect a hypothetical fourth edition to do the same.

 

[the black knight]

In order to complete what Monte said, he mentioned it was planned for 5 years after the 3.0 release at the earliest. With only minor corrections.

Just regarding short term memories .

I never addressed a time frame in my comment, so your snide aside is meaningless.

I will, however, be realistic about the nature of this business when I say that money grabs are what makes the world go around, but that doesan't mean we have to like it, or even buy into it. I won't be buying 4e. I'm planning to run out the clock on 3.5

Dragonsfoot, here I come.

 

[Scribble]

This argument is cracking me up...

A while back I was glancing through an old dragon magazine, and there was a part where Roger E. Moore was talking about a european game con he was at... He recalls answering a question someone asked about if TSR would be releasing a 3rd edition anytime soon... His answer was, no way. Not at least for another 10 years. (The magazine was from 1996)

Just made me giggle. And to be fair, TSR DIDN'T release a 3rd edition. But does that mean TSR will be rising from the grave in a few months to release its own 3rd edition???


UNDEAD TSR!