D&D General Who is this made for (Not Beginners) - the New D&D Starter Set

[Gradine]

Honestly I see no reason to buy any starter set that's the same price as its associated PHB, no matter how good it's supposed to be. From my perspective you're paying the same amount for less content.

I mean, it's hard to argue against that

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

One of the BIG points of my post (maybe I didn't make it clear enough) was that the Starter Set did such a bad job of introducing players how to play it would have been far easier (and less time consuming since I am familiar with the rules already on my part) that instead of giving each new player their own starter set to set up their characters so we could be good to go and start playing right when I got there would have been to simply just buy the PHB for each of them.

These both feel kind of over the top.

Why not just get one Starter Set, like Gleemax intended, look through it before you meet up, and then just have everyone pick a character class, hand out the cards, etc.?

Why is dropping $200 on your players -- whether it's four starter sets or four PHBs -- before they've ever played a single game the preferable option?

You are clearly pretty upset about all of this, but this is all so BIG that it's hard for me, and I suspect others, to fully relate to what's happening here.

 

[AlViking]

One of the BIG points of my post (maybe I didn't make it clear enough) was that the Starter Set did such a bad job of introducing players how to play it would have been far easier (and less time consuming since I am familiar with the rules already on my part) that instead of giving each new player their own starter set to set up their characters so we could be good to go and start playing right when I got there would have been to simply just buy the PHB for each of them.

With how much time we spent getting things sorted out with the Starter Set it would have been far less time consuming to use the PHB than the Starter Set. That was it, that was my comment and what my OP really went to in conclusion.

In addition, I feel the PHB explains things a LOT better and more clearly for beginning players to understand what is what for their character.

I've also reiterated that once or twice in this thread.

I could add in this post (as in this is a new thought in retrospect, it was not in other posts I have made in this thread) as an additional comment that there would be other bonuses to this. I did not say this originally, but now looking in retrospect, with how the game differentiates between ability score presentations and racial presentations, reading the first dozen pages of the PHB would have a similar time commitment (though no promises that they would have characters made up as I would not expect them to get into the actual character creation portion if I did this, and they probably wouldn't delve into the Class options, just the sections prior) and when spinning up could go faster (as in writing options down rather than searching through cards). They'd have a better understanding of the full game better. One more reason to say the Starter Set is worthless for beginners in my eyes in comparison, the Starter Set gives no advantages for a new Player over the PHB from what I can see currently.

PS: Seeing everyone's response and defending the Starter Set in relation to my comment in comparison to the PHB makes it pretty obvious to me that they would prefer the Starter Set over it. I just prefer the PHB by a longshot at this point.

Edit: PHB is the same cost as well, so my advice is to skip the Starter Set with a New player and just always...ALWAYS go for the PHB instead.

It sounds like you weren't the target audience for the starter set as it was designed. Other than that I can't say much - I don't have the starter set and don't plan on buying it because I've introduced plenty of people to the game without one. So it's like giving a bicycle to someone who rides a motorcycle - they're not the same thing, each has a different purpose.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

One of the BIG points of my post (maybe I didn't make it clear enough) was that the Starter Set did such a bad job of introducing players how to play it would have been far easier (and less time consuming since I am familiar with the rules already on my part) that instead of giving each new player their own starter set to set up their characters so we could be good to go and start playing right when I got there would have been to simply just buy the PHB for each of them.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, but I whole-heartedly disagree with you. I get that you had a bad experience, and maybe you're right that FOR YOU (and your group) it would have been a better idea, but for most people (I've taught a LOT of people to play D&D) this Starter is the best thing that they've invented so far to do that job. The PHB is terrible for that job. As you've said yourself, and I agree, making characters as a first step, is a terrible way to learn to play D&D! (This Set doesn't really do that - it lets you make all the biggest choices: Class, Background, Species, and equipment to a lesser extent, but it's QUICK and barely more work than picking your Pregen, and slightly more meaningful.)

With how much time we spent getting things sorted out with the Starter Set it would have been far less time consuming to use the PHB than the Starter Set.

IMO, That's just weird. I'm sure you believe that, but I have no idea how it could be true. It takes far, far longer to fill out a character sheet than it does to dig out a few cards!

That was it, that was my comment and what my OP really went to in conclusion.

I get it, but you really, really dug in to a lot of over-the-top declarations. I get it, I actually do. I mind hyperbole far less than many folks here do (I'd use it more myself if it didn't lead to arguments).

In addition, I feel the PHB explains things a LOT better and more clearly for beginning players to understand what is what for their character. I've also reiterated that once or twice in this thread.

It takes hours and hours to just to read anything meaningful in the PHB.

I could add in this post (as in this is a new thought in retrospect, it was not in other posts I have made in this thread) as an additional comment that there would be other bonuses to this. I did not say this originally, but now looking in retrospect, with how the game differentiates between ability score presentations and racial presentations, reading the first dozen pages of the PHB would have a similar time commitment (though no promises that they would have characters made up as I would not expect them to get into the actual character creation portion if I did this, and they probably wouldn't delve into the Class options, just the sections prior) and when spinning up could go faster (as in writing options down rather than searching through cards).

Searching through cards is WAY faster than writing things down! They're in Alphabetical Order when you open the box! In one of my games, I had SEVEN PLAYERS and I handed them all their cards in a couple of minutes, with them reading off to me what they needed! A few were missed, but we fixed that quickly.

They'd have a better understanding of the full game better. One more reason to say the Starter Set is worthless for beginners in my eyes in comparison, the Starter Set gives no advantages for a new Player over the PHB from what I can see currently.

I believe you, but I shake my head. I just 100% don't see the problems you see.

PS: Seeing everyone's response and defending the Starter Set in relation to my comment in comparison to the PHB makes it pretty obvious to me that they would prefer the Starter Set over it. I just prefer the PHB by a longshot at this point.

Don't get me wrong. I really like the 2024 PHB. I think it's got a great layout and is easy to use. It's not for new players, though!

Edit: PHB is the same cost as well, so my advice is to skip the Starter Set with a New player and just always...ALWAYS go for the PHB instead.

PHB is really only good for one player at a time. Starter Set is good for five. Four and the DM. Plus it has an Adventure. It's WAY better for a group looking to try D&D. I honestly don't think that very many people could play D&D by starting with a PHB. For one, they'd need a DM who has an Adventure (or at least one in mind!) Honestly, IMO, the PHB is only really good for making characters, and that (again IMO) has very little to do with PLAYING. It's a nice part of the game, don't get me wrong, but it's not Playing The Game. Yes, of course, the rules are in there too, but you're much better off playing before you read the rules!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Honestly I see no reason to buy any starter set that's the same price as its associated PHB, no matter how good it's supposed to be. From my perspective you're paying the same amount for less content.

It's more like different content. Yeah, it's a lot less words, and it's not content that Micah is interested in, but it's content that's worth quite a bit (in fact, I'm positive that WotC makes WAY LESS MONEY per unit on the Starter than they do on the PHB). Believe it or not, it's still a loss-leader, even at that price!