D&D General Who is this made for (Not Beginners) - the New D&D Starter Set

[FitzTheRuke]

You can PM me and send me the actual post you addressed my issue with? Or you can post it again if not too much trouble.

I'll see if I can find it... it should only be a few pages back. It's similar to what I'll say here, and the pictures above illustrate the same.

I also don't like your characterization that I did not read the Read Me First. I did read that, I skimmed through the How to Play. I also looked at the card.

I always assumed that you did. That part was the 'taking the piss' - part!

I don't want to give you too hard a time, because I honestly sympathize, but after your OP, I went and looked at all the components, and I just can't quite understand how you continue to persist that things "aren't there" that ARE there. I mean, I'd understand if you said "I didn't find them easy to understand", I guess, even though I don't agree that their hard to understand, but at least you wouldn't be coming off as... let's say "not expressing the truth".

I'm not saying that you're lying (not at all!) but you keep saying things that are wrong. All that stuff is plainly there. You missed it. Is that on WotC? Maybe? All I can say is: I look at it and I see the information needed.

I'll happily come on here and post if I find any problems like you've had in the future, but I haven't had them.

It did not occur to me to look at the combat portion of the Card for something like Spell DCs.

Wait - why is that? Spell DCs are unique to each character. Why would they be anywhere else?

I saw the area, I saw that it had to hit bonuses and such, but it never occurred to me to look specifically for a Spell DC item in that location of the card. I thought at the time it would have been located more towards where the spell cards and spells were, or even at least on or with that space where you would put a spell card.

There's two different pieces of information that are being jumbled (this is where the "ON the Card" part of the rulebook is making confusion - there's the DC (IE DC 13) and then there is "which ability score is the save" (Like a DEX Save): The latter is on the card, where it belongs, the former is on the character sheet, where it belongs.

Silly me for thinking Spells and Spell DC's would be close to the same spot (that was a little sarcasm from me there, it doesn't translate well into text).

I know what you mean. (Both in that I getcha, and in that I agree that it's hard to evoke the correct tone).

Things were not where they were supposed to be and were referenced wrongly in that (which, as I said, no one addressed)

We DID, though! This is like how you say rules are "not there" when they are, you say "no one addressed" when you mean, in both cases, that you didn't find either satisfactory. This is FINE - you're entitled to your opinion - but you're getting the pushback you're getting because you're using enough hyperbole to be posting things that are factually incorrect.

and I probably missed it, but where did you say they told you how the Background and Equipment cards were supposed to work outside of the component overview diagram again?

I'm not sure what you mean "how they work" - they work like they say they work ON THEM. Some more information is given in both the Read Me and the general rulebook. I'll grant you that it's light, but I'm not sure what you think is missing? You put them where it shows in the picture, read them, and do what they say.

Where were my players supposed to read about this? Where in the Read this First does it tell them what Hit Points are and thus how to identify Hit Point tokens and things like that?

It's the same with the HP tokens - they are shown in the picture. It tells you what to do with them in the book (I don't have it in front of me to give you screenshots right this second). What part is missing?

You do realize though, that this does not help my players, nor does underhandly insulting them. They do not read these boards.

I don't think I've seen anyone intentionally insulting your players. Saying that they made mistakes is not insulting them!

It may help me in the future, however, to understand how I may have missed certain things on my read through, or at least understand why they were so easily missed in the first place.

Yeah - it absolutely is interesting to know that these things that seem obvious to some can be not-so-obvious to others. It's important to know, for sure. Thanks for sharing, honestly!

It may also help me understand why you and others in this thread feel that the Starter Box does a better job of introducing players to what the definitions of terms are and what they do than what we see in the PHB (which, albeit is longer, to me does a better job than the Starter Set, as I originally posted). I still feel that I might as well have just gotten everyone PHB's and it would have been easier to introduce them than what the Starter Set does.

I have absolutely no idea how you could think this. I don't even know where to begin to discuss it with you.

As this thread shows, almost everyone disagrees, but I still don't understand why they view it this way.

Yeah, there's a gulf here. It does help to know that you're actively trying to find the bridge.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

When I tried to introduce DND to my in-laws (aged 80, 60), they had no idea what Hit Points were. It honestly made me question my assumptions and expectations I hold about RPGs.

I make no assumptions about what people know and don't know when I teach people to play D&D - it's just soooo much easier to succeed that way!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

... That said, yes, you need people to not actively work against themselves learning new things.

(Note: I am NOT saying that @GreyLord's group were doing that, at least, not on purpose. As I've tried to point out before: Mistakes happen.)

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

Depends. As a math teacher I can tell you that more than one student misses a crucial information that is there.

"A crucial piece of information"

 

[GreyLord]

Yeah, there's a gulf here. It does help to know that you're actively trying to find the bridge.

One of the BIG points of my post (maybe I didn't make it clear enough) was that the Starter Set did such a bad job of introducing players how to play it would have been far easier (and less time consuming since I am familiar with the rules already on my part) that instead of giving each new player their own starter set to set up their characters so we could be good to go and start playing right when I got there would have been to simply just buy the PHB for each of them.

With how much time we spent getting things sorted out with the Starter Set it would have been far less time consuming to use the PHB than the Starter Set. That was it, that was my comment and what my OP really went to in conclusion.

In addition, I feel the PHB explains things a LOT better and more clearly for beginning players to understand what is what for their character.

I've also reiterated that once or twice in this thread.

I could add in this post as an additional comment that there would be other bonuses to this. I did not say this originally, but now looking in retrospect, with how the game differentiates between ability score presentations and racial presentations, reading the first dozen pages of the PHB would have a similar time commitment (though no promises that they would have characters made up as I would not expect them to get into the actual character creation portion if I did this, and they probably wouldn't delve into the Class options, just the sections prior) and when spinning up could go faster (as in writing options down rather than searching through cards). They'd have a better understanding of the full game better. One more reason to say the Starter Set is worthless for beginners in my eyes in comparison, the Starter Set gives no advantages for a new Player over the PHB from what I can see currently.