This is a thread that has gotten absolutely nowhere in a hurry, and definitely wasn't going to get anywhere in the first place. I feel like when the following thing happens:
(1): OP posts information that is factually incorrect about product
(2): Many people point out their inaccuracy
(3): OP accuses said people of being WotC stans who will mindlessly glaze anything they create
That feels like that should be the ending point of the thread, right? Where is there anywhere productive to go from there?
Actually, I did not for the most part.
People simply did not address what I said was wrong with it and then glossed over what I said.
For example, NO ONE...AT ALL has addressed the actual save issue. I even quoted what the section under the Saves stated. It actually directs you to look at the wrong place for the Save DC (so, when people say...just look at your board! Maybe, but the book states directly under the section called SAVING THROWS that you are too look at the Spell Card for a Spell DC.
There IS ONE SENTENCE that someone pointed out in an entirely different area NOT LABLED as Saving throws where it directs you to where the Saving Throws are located.
Remember, these are new players (and even as an experienced DM, as I was looking at where it talked about Saving throws and magic...that's where I was looking)...and to expect them to pick out one line out of the entire book which is not even under the Saving Throws section is crazy.
Furthermore, NO ONE has talked about where it tells the players what to do with the cards or what the cards are for.
For example, it says place Hit Point Tokens equal to your character's Hit Point Maximum on your Class board.
You know what those are.
Imagine you've never played D&D and are not a RPG gamer.
How do you even know what Hit Points are? How do you even know what Hit Point Tokens are?
How can they expect you to put those tokens on the board when you have no idea what Hit Points are?
It has one picture in the guide of the cleric board. You could think that those would clue them in that equipment cards go on the board, but not necessarily. It doesn't define what components you need to play are, just that you need to get them. They had all the cards out and separated into neat stacks, they just couldn't figure out what they needed.
There's no place that really takes the player in detail on a step by step process on how to make their character or how to do it.
The entire section on character creation is 5 paragraphs. NOW IF you know what you are doing (and these are new players...by the way) in an RPG you may look for a glossary or other item.
The booklet is expecting people to look all over it for definitions and other things (which actually doesn't explain Hit Points either).
So, no, I don't think I was wrong.
That said, it is good to have discussion and debate. I think everyone here has valuable information they've included (except the ones saying my players were stupid or other things...that's not really valuable) and it's good to have input from many others so people who see the thread can evaluate for themselves whether it is for them or not (though I expect most seeing this thread are going to be experienced gamers, most new players are probably going to simply just get it from a store).
Furthermore, I don't feel this set was made with the New Player in mind. If it were, more care would have been put into making it so it was easy for new players to actually play. It would define things (like Hit points) right from the Start in a way that players could understand such things. It would actually LIST things like where the Spell DC is on your chart in Sections where it talks about what a Saving Throw is. It would explain what you are doing with your species and Background card when you are supposed to select them (the picture given has the cards picture up, which is great to show that...hey...these cards are here...but what do they do? Why do they even need them?
Etc...etc..etc.
As I said, the posts in this topic really haven't answered the items I've pointed out except for a few posts (such as the one that actually pointed out that on page 18 is a sentence which actually shows where the Spell DC is located which was missed. (Probably easily by new players as in this is a LOT for a new player to absorb, and one sentence in a location unrelated to where Saving Throws as a section is listed is probably easy to miss, which is not really New Player friendly...but hey).
What I see is that this starter set expects that someone at the table is an experienced player and knows what they are doing, OR, that the New players go to D&D beyond to watch the videos (and probably, in WotC's hope, start using D&D beyond).
The Videos do a FAR better job of doing what the books should have done...but don't. (Something else no one has addressed...by the way).
However, I value that others are giving their input, but they have not convinced me this is a good set or that I or my players did anything wrong. (trying to make this clear so that people do not feel like their opinions or posts are not valued. I think they are and I appreciate everyone's input no matter what or how they stated it in the thread).
The BIGGEST irony though, is....let's say I did do something wrong? I'm an experienced player here. My players are not. If my players did something "wrong" in their going to the game...why is that their fault?
If a game set is made so that the general new player can do it "wrong" I'd say that this is a problem with the set and not the new players. In fact, I'd say that would actually be an alarming item if new players do things "wrong" with not understanding the rules written for them.
It's like if you had a TV that you were selling and most people couldn't figure out how to turn it on.
What is the best answer for the salesman to do there. Simply tell everyone that the reason is that they are doing it wrong? Or try to figure out why people are having trouble turning it on in order to avoid this in the future?
But tell them that-- that they should make the product into what they want and they're all "I shouldn't HAVE to!" Uh...yes you should! Because what you want doesn't exist and will not exist because the product has already been made.
