D&D General Who is this made for (Not Beginners) - the New D&D Starter Set

[Thommy H-H]

If you find the instructions on the SAVE DC, or detailed instructions on character creation...shoot me the page and actually quote the section where it states (and I'm not talking some component overview which shows what each section of the card does...I'm talking a better step by step than what the "Read this First" goes through and does.

I don't have the set, but from the videos that have been linked, it looks like the first part of the Play Guide explains the components like the class boards and how to read them. The second part of it is (I assume) a reprint of the Basic D&D rules, which will explain things like save DCs and the basic structure of play (including the role of the DM). I mean, it sounds like you didn't find the information in these adequate for your needs, but given you are an experienced player, it's presumably not that easy for you to judge it anyway. But in any case, that material is included.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm surprised that they didn't include rules

There's a rulebook in the box. It's the second item in there, after the "read this first" flyer.

 

[Distracted DM]

The second part of it is (I assume) a reprint of the Basic D&D rules, which will explain things like save DCs and the basic structure of play (including the role of the DM).

So for anyone that has the box, is this the case in the Play Guide? It does include the basic DnD rules, as above assumes? I think that's all we'd need to know, that maybe OP missed the section on calculating a PC's DCs for their features' saves (and the rest of the basic rules section).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So for anyone that has the box, is this the case in the Play Guide? It does include the basic DnD rules, as above assumes? I think that's all we'd need to know, that maybe OP missed the section on calculating a PC's DCs for their features' saves (and the rest of the basic rules section).

Page 18: "A caster's spell save DC and spell attack modifier are both listed on the character's Class Board."

On the cleric card, it's the bottom of column three: "Spell Save DC 13"

On the wizard card, it's on the bottom of the merged columns two and three: "Spell Save DC 13"

There is nothing about recalculating the DC after level 3, when you're told to use the PHB.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Also, the character cards clearly tell you where to put the background and ancestry cards:

 

[Imaro]

I have both the Read Me First and the Play Guide.

So it did in fact come with rules.

In the Read Me First all it says is

That's not all it says but ok...

It goes over the card items in the component Overview (Pg. 3), but it never really goes into...Okay...this is what you are going to do with these items.

None of my players put 1 and 1 together, and it doesn't really go through...hey...this is how this works.

There is no guidance on step by step like there is in the PHB (heck, it's bad when the PHB is better at guiding someone through creating their character than the Starter Box).

I'm betting all those who are saying it's so easy are experienced players like me. These are new players that I thought would have an easier time with this set (I should have looked at the set first myself). There is nothing there that actually WALKS them through the process. The Read Me first is the only thing...and I just printed out the entirety of the Background and Species information that is found there. Sure, the How to Play book has more, but it's just a Component overview which points out the areas of the card.

That said, since everyone is saying it's so easy...give me the page and quote where it states that your Spell Save DC is found in the Bottom Center of your Class Board.

On page 5 of the PG... #11 on the character card is called out as the box referenced whenever a character makes an attack with a weapon or spell... thats where Spell DC is located.

Guess what, we LOOKED all over that Spell Card and didn't find any DC (because the DC wasn't there! Obviously. This also isn't told in the glossary either.

No its not... but it is exactly where the PG tells you to look on your card when attacking with a spell...

Sure, it's on the picture of the Class board, but it doesn't specify that this is where the DC is found, and it is not something that just jumps out at you (probably because, though this may all seem easy peasy to you experienced players, this is a LOT to digest for a new player. Things like this are not obvious to them).

It directs you to look exactly where it is when making an attack with a spell... this feels more like no one actually read through the book as opposed to it not being called out.

AS I said, this is the worst starter set I've ever come across. I think they had experienced people playtest this without just handing it to people who had never played the game in their life and seeing if they could figure it out and how long it took them (without watching the video...which...is not in the box).

Question did you and your players actually read through the PG or did you just skim it?

But this box is the very last thing I would suggest for someone wanting to learn to play. I'd even suggest they just hop in with the PHB rather than use this box.

I'd disagree though I would suggest actually going through it and familiarizing yourself with it before jumping in to play.

If you find the instructions on the SAVE DC, or detailed instructions on character creation...shoot me the page and actually quote the section where it states (and I'm not talking some component overview which shows what each section of the card does...I'm talking a better step by step than what the "Read this First" goes through and does.

Why do you need detailed instructions as opposed to simple instructions that facilitate play... there's no reason to go in depth about Save DC's and how they are computed when using a pregen... just follow the instructions and look in the area it tells you to when attack8ng with a spell... there's the number.

This is even before we get into someone being the DM. There is almost nothing that eases the DM into that role...and with a Sandbox, you at least need one or two trial scenarios or something. They have descriptive boxes on the first two pages of each booklet for the "DM" that tells you what items do, but nothing to really "guide" the DM through their first experience of DMing.

They have tutorial sections in each of the adventure books as well as the actual rules in the PG going over everything from combat to roleplay to exploration...

I got these boxes because I thought it would be a great intro for new players and with everything looking to be more free form than previous Starter Boxes, it would be a great way to ease people into it and have a lot of replay.

I was wrong. This isn't a good box for that.

To each their own I guess but after looking over the set...im going to strongly disagree with this take.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm surprised that they didn't include rules, but I assumed it was primarily targeting Gen X nostalgia, not new players.

Yeah, why would a starter set target new players anyway?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Come on they are just setting the expectations for new DMs.

"We haven't included any rules because your players won't read them or even try to remember them, they are just going to copy some build they saw on the internet and fumble through play. Good Luck"

Would have loved to see that note in the box?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have both the Read Me First and the Play Guide.

In the Read Me First all it says is


It goes over the card items in the component Overview (Pg. 3), but it never really goes into...Okay...this is what you are going to do with these items.

None of my players put 1 and 1 together, and it doesn't really go through...hey...this is how this works.

There is no guidance on step by step like there is in the PHB (heck, it's bad when the PHB is better at guiding someone through creating their character than the Starter Box).

I'm betting all those who are saying it's so easy are experienced players like me. These are new players that I thought would have an easier time with this set (I should have looked at the set first myself). There is nothing there that actually WALKS them through the process. The Read Me first is the only thing...and I just printed out the entirety of the Background and Species information that is found there. Sure, the How to Play book has more, but it's just a Component overview which points out the areas of the card.

That said, since everyone is saying it's so easy...give me the page and quote where it states that your Spell Save DC is found in the Bottom Center of your Class Board.

We LOOKED hard for this one during the game. The section on Saving throws is 3 paragraphs. The first is an intro and doesn't tell you what the numbers are. When you get to those two paragraphs all it says is...



Guess what, we LOOKED all over that Spell Card and didn't find any DC (because the DC wasn't there! Obviously. This also isn't told in the glossary either.

If you never watch the videos, you don't get this information. However, if you have a specific page and quote where it shows the exact place where the Save DC is located...you can tell me. Sure, it's on the picture of the Class board, but it doesn't specify that this is where the DC is found, and it is not something that just jumps out at you (probably because, though this may all seem easy peasy to you experienced players, this is a LOT to digest for a new player. Things like this are not obvious to them).

AS I said, this is the worst starter set I've ever come across. I think they had experienced people playtest this without just handing it to people who had never played the game in their life and seeing if they could figure it out and how long it took them (without watching the video...which...is not in the box).

For experienced players, I'd say the adventure is actually nice. If you want all the components, they are nice to have also.

But this box is the very last thing I would suggest for someone wanting to learn to play. I'd even suggest they just hop in with the PHB rather than use this box.

And I'm a pretty hardcore boardgamer (so you'd think something like this box would be right up my alley).

If you find the instructions on the SAVE DC, or detailed instructions on character creation...shoot me the page and actually quote the section where it states (and I'm not talking some component overview which shows what each section of the card does...I'm talking a better step by step than what the "Read this First" goes through and does.

This is even before we get into someone being the DM. There is almost nothing that eases the DM into that role...and with a Sandbox, you at least need one or two trial scenarios or something. They have descriptive boxes on the first two pages of each booklet for the "DM" that tells you what items do, but nothing to really "guide" the DM through their first experience of DMing.

For comparison...the best Basic/Starter Boxes that I've seen in this capacity are the PF1 Beginner Box and the Red Box (BECMI). These guide new players on how to Roleplay, what to do, character creation made easy, etc.

I got these boxes because I thought it would be a great intro for new players and with everything looking to be more free form than previous Starter Boxes, it would be a great way to ease people into it and have a lot of replay.

I was wrong. This isn't a good box for that.

BECMI Red Box remains my favorite start set for any game.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Would have loved to see that note in the box?

Yeah, why would a starter set target new players anyway?

So are you just ignoring all the comments that point out that this info is incorrect, cause you just want to confirm your biases.