D&D General Who is this made for (Not Beginners) - the New D&D Starter Set

[GreyLord]

But you don't have to create characters - they're essentially pregens. You literally just pick a class, a species, and a background, which are represented by the cards. It sounds like you went into this as an experienced DM, expecting it to tell you how to do all the stuff you already know how to do, when the set is specifically designed to give a simpler experience with fewer decision points to avoid overwhelming new players. Like, it doesn't tell you how to calculate the save DCs because you literally don't have to do that with this product - everything is already filled in for you.

Not as per what is there. You have different stacks of cards. They did very well at separating the stacks of cards. No one realized they were supposed to get cards from the stacks (Except the Elf Wizard which DID get the cards from the Elf out...I think it was Druidcraft).

They are supposed to grab cards to put on the boards. I had to instruct them board section by board section what card they were supposed to get out. That meant at times I had to actually go look at their board with them to tell them what type of item or spell they were supposed to do (and of course innocuous questions such as...do I get Guidance or Guiding Bolt...etc).

So, you have equipment that are on cards that go on your board, or in your hand, or beside your board (they also weren't clear what they were supposed to do with cards they had which were not on the board, but that they were supposed to hold. I told them to hold it in their hand or put it on the table above their board).

I would assume that they are not instructed in character creation in the book specifically and explicitly to get the cards out.

As I said, what MAY seem obvious to someone who has played before...is probably not obvious...or even maybe not even evident...to someone who has not.

This became obviously clear to me with this starter set in my gaming session yesterday.

I've NEVER (how can I emphasis this more) had anything like this happen with any new group of players I've ever started with during the entirety of my RPG and D&D career (and that's been going on since the 70s, though only DMing since the 80s).

I will note that when we started playing, until spell casting, they actually understood quite well how combat would work. They understood combat options. They understood mostly about skill checks. That was perhaps the only part that went smoothly...well...except for interactions occasionally. They seemed to want to know why they should roll when interacting with someone rather than automatically having me understand what that person would do, but that's something that COULD pop up with any new group rather than being specific to this group.

 

[GreyLord]

“A caster's spell save DC and spell attack modifier” isn’t actually the spell DC…? How do you figure?

Spell Save DC in 5e is calculated as 8+PB+Ability Modifier (whichever one the class uses).

That is a pretty easy number to keep set. For example, a Wizard with a +3 to their INT (Stats are only bonuses or negatives in this game, no 3-18), at 1st level would have a Spell DC of 13.

That number was not listed in an obvious spot for them to realize where it was. I had no idea how this starter set would do that, but when we got to that spot in the game where it was needed I looked it up in the How to Play book. It said reference the card (they cast Thunderwave). The card says it's a CON save...but of course doesn't list the Spell DC. I had no idea where to find it. It wasn't listed under Saving Throws in it's section nor was it listed in the glossary which refers back to the Saving Throws section on page 10.

I know 5e and calculated it myself, but that was annoying that this book didn't have an easy introduction for the players walking them through each part of character creation and specifically telling them what to do (for example...

1. You have ability scores. These are numbers that range from -3 to +4.

The First one is STR. This number will modify how much Damage you do. It will be shown on your equipment cards (that you will put on your board or hold in your hand, more on that in section 22) as a modifier to add to your weapon damage. If you had a weapon that did 1-6 damage (1d6) +STR, then you would add your STR number to that amount rolled.

etc...etc...etc. for each ability score, and other areas. No quick explanation (as they do with the Component overview...they need something far more in depth than that) as those explanations clearly did not set out what they were supposed to do with that information.

Something THAT explicit would have been far better. It would have gone through the character with each of them and how it works (at least the basics since it already has the numbers listed for them).

There should be no need (and you need to have at least one experienced player at the table to guide them through this for this starter set from what I have seen from my experience last night) to have an experienced individual to explain some of this too them.

Either that or go with an entirely and completely pre-made character (like the Starter Sets). Or have it as an option.

All the cards are pretty and it's all nice and such, but that does me no good when they skimp on other areas of the set.

 

[Belen]

Not as per what is there. You have different stacks of cards. They did very well at separating the stacks of cards. No one realized they were supposed to get cards from the stacks (Except the Elf Wizard which DID get the cards from the Elf out...I think it was Druidcraft).

They are supposed to grab cards to put on the boards. I had to instruct them board section by board section what card they were supposed to get out. That meant at times I had to actually go look at their board with them to tell them what type of item or spell they were supposed to do (and of course innocuous questions such as...do I get Guidance or Guiding Bolt...etc).

So, you have equipment that are on cards that go on your board, or in your hand, or beside your board (they also weren't clear what they were supposed to do with cards they had which were not on the board, but that they were supposed to hold. I told them to hold it in their hand or put it on the table above their board).

I would assume that they are not instructed in character creation in the book specifically and explicitly to get the cards out.

As I said, what MAY seem obvious to someone who has played before...is probably not obvious...or even maybe not even evident...to someone who has not.

This became obviously clear to me with this starter set in my gaming session yesterday.

I've NEVER (how can I emphasis this more) had anything like this happen with any new group of players I've ever started with during the entirety of my RPG and D&D career (and that's been going on since the 70s, though only DMing since the 80s).

I will note that when we started playing, until spell casting, they actually understood quite well how combat would work. They understood combat options. They understood mostly about skill checks. That was perhaps the only part that went smoothly...well...except for interactions occasionally. They seemed to want to know why they should roll when interacting with someone rather than automatically having me understand what that person would do, but that's something that COULD pop up with any new group rather than being specific to this group.

How about a nice game of chess?

 

[Micah Sweet]

As many people have pointed out, there is, in fact, a rulebook in the box, and the OP is incorrect when he says that there is not.

But he went on to acknowledge the rulebook but claimed it didn't do a good job teaching new players.

 

[Thommy H-H]

Not as per what is there. You have different stacks of cards. They did very well at separating the stacks of cards. No one realized they were supposed to get cards from the stacks (Except the Elf Wizard which DID get the cards from the Elf out...I think it was Druidcraft).

They are supposed to grab cards to put on the boards. I had to instruct them board section by board section what card they were supposed to get out. That meant at times I had to actually go look at their board with them to tell them what type of item or spell they were supposed to do (and of course innocuous questions such as...do I get Guidance or Guiding Bolt...etc).

So, you have equipment that are on cards that go on your board, or in your hand, or beside your board (they also weren't clear what they were supposed to do with cards they had which were not on the board, but that they were supposed to hold. I told them to hold it in their hand or put it on the table above their board).

I would assume that they are not instructed in character creation in the book specifically and explicitly to get the cards out.

As I said, what MAY seem obvious to someone who has played before...is probably not obvious...or even maybe not even evident...to someone who has not.

This became obviously clear to me with this starter set in my gaming session yesterday.

I mean....this all sounds like not so much an issue with the set itself as with a group not fully understanding that you expected them to be ready to play the moment you turned up. Which is kind of weird, since every time I've taught someone D&D (or any game, really), I'm the first one there and do all the required prep so they can get straight to playing. It sounds like you imagined the books would guide them through the whole process without any input from you, but I can understand why a group wouldn't know that if they were waiting on the experienced DM to show up and take them through it instead. The problem here is a mismatch of expectations: you wanted them to be able to run it without you there, but they assumed that you would want to run it and so didn't take the initiative. No wonder everyone was flouundering - no one was actually prepared to run the game!

 

[GreyLord]

How about a nice game of chess?

Well, everyone there was an experienced board game player...and yes...we've played chess.

One of them can whip me pretty badly at chess. I'm not sure of their rating but they play online apparently in a somewhat competitive online community (I don't play online and so I am unsure how that works with them. When I was young we didn't have such things).

 

[Thommy H-H]

Spell Save DC in 5e is calculated as 8+PB+Ability Modifier (whichever one the class uses).

That is a pretty easy number to keep set. For example, a Wizard with a +3 to their INT (Stats are only bonuses or negatives in this game, no 3-18), at 1st level would have a Spell DC of 13.

That number was not listed in an obvious spot for them to realize where it was. I had no idea how this starter set would do that, but when we got to that spot in the game where it was needed I looked it up in the How to Play book. It said reference the card (they cast Thunderwave). The card says it's a CON save...but of course doesn't list the Spell DC. I had no idea where to find it. It wasn't listed under Saving Throws in it's section nor was it listed in the glossary which refers back to the Saving Throws section on page 10.

But how could the DC be on the cards when they're shared between characters (and levels) that might have different spell save DCs? The obvious place to put the save DC is on the character boards themselves - which they did, and which no one else seems to have struggled to find. Again, maybe you should have actually looked over the components yourself and familiarised yourself with them before trying to run the game.

 

[GreyLord]

But how could the DC be on the cards when they're shared between characters (and levels) that might have different spell save DCs? The obvious place to put the save DC is on the character boards themselves - which they did, and which no one else seems to have struggled to find. Again, maybe you should have actually looked over the components yourself and familiarised yourself with them before trying to run the game.

Currently, at 1st level at least, they cards are not shared overall.

The only card that may be shared between classes are the ones that come on the background or race cards from what I've seen.

That's because the set normally only has one spell card and only one class or individual can use that card for their character.

 

[GreyLord]

I mean....this all sounds like not so much an issue with the set itself as with a group not fully understanding that you expected them to be ready to play the moment you turned up. Which is kind of weird, since every time I've taught someone D&D (or any game, really), I'm the first one there and do all the required prep so they can get straight to playing. It sounds like you imagined the books would guide them through the whole process without any input from you, but I can understand why a group wouldn't know that if they were waiting on the experienced DM to show up and take them through it instead. The problem here is a mismatch of expectations: you wanted them to be able to run it without you there, but they assumed that you would want to run it and so didn't take the initiative. No wonder everyone was flouundering - no one was actually prepared to run the game!

I think they understood it, the set just wasn't made for people who may boardgame, but do not understand RPGs.

On top of that, every starter Set (basic sets or things like the Essentials Kit is different) I've played is a sit down and run type of game. Except for prepping the dungeon everyone already is ready to go the instant they get their character sheets. It is then (as I'm normally familiar enough with the sheets, they are not that different from the full character sheets of the game the set is for) a simple matter for me to explain it as I go rather than trying to tailor it to however the starter set has done things.

For a Starter Set, the entire reason to go with a Starter Set is ease of starting the game with new players. If it fails at that basic task...why use a Starter Set rather than something more complex in the first place (like the PHB???)

 

[Composer99]

Just so I'm clear, are you complaining about spell saving throw DCs being missing? The saving throw DCs that you find in a big red text box at the bottom of the class board?