D&D General Whom has had a greater impact on D&D? Gygax or Greenwood?

[Guest User]

To place all credit for the "hero-ization" and high-fantasy lean of modern D&D play at Greenwood's feet is...extremely generous. To further deny Gygax credit for the ways he continues to influence the game despite not even owning the brand for 20 years (and, well, his passing in 2008) is nothing short of special pleading.

I would agree with this, if anyone was even claiming that Ed gets all the credit and Gary gets no credit. I'm certainly not saying that....I do not recall anyone else in this thread making the claim you referenced above.

This is beyond a Strawman argument, it is a Nowwhere Man argument.

I've, met people in their 20's that have never seen a fax machine, and a floppy drive might as well be a piece of alien technology.

The Zork like game featured in the last few series episodes of Mr. Robot, has better graphics then Ultima Online. Ahh..UO...a game where if your dial up connection lagged, a rabbit could kill you.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I would agree with this, if anyone was even claiming that Ed gets all the credit and Gary gets no credit. I'm certainly not saying that....I do not recall anyone else in this thread making the claim you referenced above.

Perhaps I am simply deeply confused about your argument, but the following quotes demonstrate where I think you are arguing exactly that thing--that Gygax is irrelevant and Greenwood is where it's at. Italics in original, bold added for emphasis:

Yes, the FR is "just a setting". Just the most popular, and widely used setting for several decades now. Kids whom have picked up the game independently of their parents, know what the Forgotten Realms is, from the 5e modules. Those same kids, don't have any real idea who Gary Gygax is.

If Gary is the most influential figure in D&D for "creating" the game, despite the many differences between the editions over the years, and Gary's lack of input over the last 4 editions....shouldn't Ed, at least get the same consideration vis a vis the Forgotten Realms.

Being relevant to an emerging market is being part of "living history".
Being an unknown figure to that emerging market means being relegated to the footnotes of history.

Outside the Against the Giants conversions in the Yawning Portal...there is not much of Gary's world building in 5e. Hopefully that will change in 2021.

When you assert that a person is, or is going to be, "an unknown figure...relegated to the footnotes of history," you're pretty clearly saying one person is (or should be) getting tons of credit and the other person is (or should be) getting nothing.

 

[TheSword]

When you assert that a person is, or is going to be, "an unknown figure...relegated to the footnotes of history," you're pretty clearly saying one person is (or should be) getting tons of credit and the other person is (or should be) getting nothing.

Not really. A person can be unknown and yet still deserving of credit.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not really. A person can be unknown and yet still deserving of credit.

Thunderous Mojo explicitly said, "if anyone were claiming...Gary gets no credit." I'd say asserting that Gygax is being "relegated to the footnotes of history" is saying he's not getting credit.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I’d put Charlie Stross over Greenwood.

Stross contributed stuff I actually use and care about.

Ok, I thought I was pretty familiar with Charlie Stross's work, what D&D related thing has he done?

 

[Guest User]

Yes, me personally, would hate for Gary Gygax to be just a trivia question.
I have also stated, openly, I love Gary Gygax.

I witnessed a game of D&D, being played by children, and unlike my own experience of
D&D, the awareness of Gary Gygax was essentially absent.
I think this shift in perspective is worthy of discussion.
I think it is especially, appropriate conversion this board should have, given
that active posters here, skew towards middle age.

Also :
Quote 1, of what your quoted, is essentially what I just said above.
Quote 2: is pointing out that if Gary gets credit, in perpetuity, for creating D&D,
then Ed should get the same courtesy.
Ed is not getting the same courtesy. As a gamer, I don't care about Fiction Books,
I care about game books. Waterdeep is one of the great Fantasy cities.
Waterdeep and the North and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, still hold up today.
There are tons of details and adventure ideas in there.

RA Salavatore or any of the novels, (including Ed's) have never inspired me.

Quote 3: I thought the tone in that phrase was fairly obvious. My writing voice
should sound alarmed? I suppose, it must not have.

 

[Guest User]

Thunderous Mojo explicitly said, "if anyone were claiming...Gary gets no credit.

Pardon me...that was meant in the sense of:
"If anyone were claiming ..Gary should get no credit"

Hence my comment regarding making a "Nowhere Man" argument.
That was how I, interpreted the meaning of what was being stated, by you
earlier.

 

[TheSword]

Thunderous Mojo explicitly said, "if anyone were claiming...Gary gets no credit." I'd say asserting that Gygax is being "relegated to the footnotes of history" is saying he's not getting credit.

Getting credit and deserving credit are two different things. Let’s be honest he’s been gone a long time... longer than most players have been playing. Most players won’t have more than maybe heard the name off hand with little to reference that name against.

The question of who had more impact on the D&D is undoubtably Gygax. However who had had more impact on the modern game, that is several generations removed from his version - I’m not so sure. It’s a different game, in art, in miniatures, in ethos, and particularly in adventure design. There is a reason Princes of the Apocalypse is re-imagined rather than re-printed.

 

[ph0rk]

Ok, I thought I was pretty familiar with Charlie Stross's work, what D&D related thing has he done?

He created Githyanki, Githzerai, Slaadi, and Death Knights, among other stuff

 

[UngainlyTitan]

He created Githyanki, Githzerai, Slaadi, and Death Knights, among other stuff

Interesting tidbit. I was completely unaware of it.