D&D 4E Who's still playing 4E

[Obryn]

Thanks Obryn! Where did you get your 4e copy?

Of 4e? I have the books. Of Zeitgeist? I have a sub through RPG Now.

 

[MoonSong]

Still playing on one game, and I gotta pray for my DM's health cause I doubt 'nother one will happen anytime soon. Wanted to run a game, but I need to find both the time and enough players. Maybe something via roll20 someday when my situation settles...

Maybe is it time to start running unauthorized fanzines or go back and attempt to clone the thing so there's more out there to buy?

I would love to say I'm "still" playing 4e--the sad fact is that I'm stuck simply trying to FIND 4e games to play in!

I wouldn't mind giving 13A a try either, though I'd need to have a chat with any 13A DM about the Paladin class and ways to "fix" it or at least make it more active.

I would run a game, but I need the time. Are you on rPOL? if you are I could try to convince my DM to make room for you.

 

[skotothalamos]

Still playing 4e. We've probably got two years left in our Zeitgeist 4e game. Still using Insider for character builder. Can't really help you on outside resources, though.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Yes, I am still running 4E - a soon-to-conclude campaign set in and around Neverwinter in the 4E Realms - and expect to continue doing so for as long as I keep running D&D.

We tried 5E for a few sessions - not to replace 4E but simply to give it a go - but it brought back too many memories of AD&D for us to be truly happy with the edition. (In short, combat is boring.)

As a DM, I will keep on using 4E for one primary reason: stat blocks. They're easy to create, easy to adjust, and easy to use. You don't need to look things up other than conditions you have not committed to memory. Then there are the tools and I remain a DDi subscriber so we still have access to them.

4E rocks. It's not to everyone's tastes but it's a great game. Anything else for us feels like going backwards.

Resources: While a lot of stuff done by the CharOp people on the WotC boards is poo-pooed, I find their optimisation guides for each class a tremendous resource for interested players in terms of helping them cull the list of available options for their character to a more manageable level. It's definitely worth pointing your players toward those IMO and IME.

 

[pemerton]

While a lot of stuff done by the CharOp people on the WotC boards is poo-pooed, I find their optimisation guides for each class a tremendous resource for interested players in terms of helping them cull the list of available options for their character to a more manageable level.

I haven't looked at these closely myself, but at least a couple of my players have.

From what they've reported, these guides reflect a particular approach to play that won't necessarily apply at every table, but do provide useful help in terms of indexing and basic analysis.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I would run a game, but I need the time. Are you on rPOL? if you are I could try to convince my DM to make room for you.

I'm not, I've actually never heard of it before today. I assume that is "RolePlay onLine"?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes, I am still running 4E - a soon-to-conclude campaign set in and around Neverwinter in the 4E Realms - and expect to continue doing so for as long as I keep running D&D.

Well, if you've got room for another--and more importantly, run it online or are willing to consider it--I am, as stated, "on the market" so to speak

4E rocks. It's not to everyone's tastes but it's a great game. Anything else for us feels like going backwards.

Hear hear!

Resources: While a lot of stuff done by the CharOp people on the WotC boards is poo-pooed, I find their optimisation guides for each class a tremendous resource for interested players in terms of helping them cull the list of available options for their character to a more manageable level. It's definitely worth pointing your players toward those IMO and IME.

Yeah, I think people are blinded by "prejudice" (e.g. "CharOp is the ENEMY of roleplay") and thus don't consider the flipside of it: Someone else has *already* put in the time and effort to rank things. As long as they aren't *bad* at it (and public opinion should've already killed the bad ones), you can use that filter to deal with all the unwanted cruft, whether to cherry-pick the good (teal/gold rated) or ward off the bad (red/purple rated). You don't even need to read the whole guide; they're usually very simply laid out, and what with 4e being so balanced, you only need to look at the options you can *currently* choose from--so none of the dreaded "level 1-max pre-planned" stuff people bemoan so much!

I haven't looked at these closely myself, but at least a couple of my players have.

From what they've reported, these guides reflect a particular approach to play that won't necessarily apply at every table, but do provide useful help in terms of indexing and basic analysis.

Well, at risk of being a hypocrite, that's kind of unavoidable. Analysis must start from a common baseline, but true common baselines universally valid at all possible tables simply cannot exist. On the one hand, it's pretty much incontrovertible that, if you haven't multiclassed yet, a multiclass feat is strictly superior to the skill training feat, since it gives an identical bonus (training in a skill) plus a huge other set of benefits (dabbling in another class). On the other hand, in a game where combat only happens once in a blue moon, and most powers are used for social/roleplay effect, the skill training feat might actually be worth taking after that; such a game is highly unlikely but not impossible. Guides cannot possibly be expected to take these sorts of things into account.

That said, though, I don't really disagree with your point. Much of the analysis is either left open-ended (e.g. "X is mediocre, but if you have/can get Y, it gets much better"), but even after that, there's still a degree to which highly complex effects from the DM are simplified out or ignored altogether. Dealing with that pretty much has to be the reader's responsibility. If you know your DM likes undead and solos, abilities that are AWESOME at minion-clearing or that do lots of poison damage? Probably not very useful, even if they're teal-, or hell, gold-marked. If your DM loves to stock combats with lots and lots of tricky terrain and pitfalls, charging may not be very useful--and a lot of charop guides expect that charging is a valid option. Etc.

The charop guides are not golden words flowing straight from the mouths of angels, and we shouldn't expect them to be. They're bundles of analysis and guidance presented from a particular perspective. The reader must make sure--as all readers always should, when taking in any information from another human--that that perspective actually applies to them.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Well, if you've got room for another--and more importantly, run it online or are willing to consider it--I am, as stated, "on the market" so to speak (snip)

I would love to run online but I live in a country that was ranked as having the second-lower internet speeds in the region with only Afghanistan having lower speeds.

And that's based on the official speeds.

In reality, Afghanistan is faster.

Doing anything online here is really frustrating. For my regulars, we draw on the social capital of having been friends for 30+ years: I don't think new players would be as forgiving!

(snip) That said, though, I don't really disagree with your point. Much of the analysis is either left open-ended (e.g. "X is mediocre, but if you have/can get Y, it gets much better"), but even after that, there's still a degree to which highly complex effects from the DM are simplified out or ignored altogether. Dealing with that pretty much has to be the reader's responsibility. If you know your DM likes undead and solos, abilities that are AWESOME at minion-clearing or that do lots of poison damage? Probably not very useful, even if they're teal-, or hell, gold-marked. If your DM loves to stock combats with lots and lots of tricky terrain and pitfalls, charging may not be very useful--and a lot of charop guides expect that charging is a valid option. Etc. (snip)

You made a lot of really good points but I want to focus on the bit I put in bold: different games have different demands. Heck, a bladesinger was super-effective in our games because it was a perfect match for how we play. (He's even better now that he has been rebuilt as a wizard... but he would not have survived this far, I suspect, if he had been a wizard from the beginning.)

Anyway, the real key to running almost any edition of D&D is managing information. (The lack of tools to do so was what, IMO, contributed to the demise of 3.xE for many groups.) The CharOp guides help a lot with that and, on that basis, I think they are a tremendous resource.

 

[D'karr]

Would you mind sharing any homebrew rule changes? Also, if you know, where might someone find the offline character builder? Thank you for your response.

I have the offline character builder and monster builder (adventure tools) from when WotC was distributing them as part of DnD Insider subscriptions. I'm sure they can be found online somewhere but I haven't spent time looking. I use a third party app called CBLoader that allows for customization of the offline db. I use it to extend the character builder for things that I want for my campaigns - custom themes, backgrounds, powers, feats, magic items, etc.

As far as homebrew changes, most of my changes are hacks to the existing system using things that the system already provides not actual rule changes. I have extended the system to account for short term and long term injuries and wounds, a system for stunts, multiple adjustments to account for "trivial" encounters (dungeon crawls), changes to ritual magic to make it more prevalent in a particular campaign, etc.

Nothing I've done with the system is really ground-breaking/earth-shattering, most of it involves extending already existing parts of the base framework.

 

[Myrhdraak]

When 4th Edition came out I felt that it was too big a change to easily convert my old Campaign World to 4th Edition. As I had just got my second child we put that old game on hold, and have played 4th Edition "out-of-the-box" for 7 years now, running the H1 to E3 adventures. However, it is first now when WotC ends the edition that I feel it has reached a maturity that allows me to recreate the players and my old World in 4th Edition.

However, having seen 5th Edition I can see a lot of the non-combat parts that I find very good, so I have actually started to put together my own 4.5 version, using the combat parts from 4th edition and non-combat parts from 5th Editon. This is a 6 month project, but I have so far made some good progress:

- 4.5 Edition Combat Rules Compendium adding bounded accuracy concept into 4th Edition as well as some conditions from 5th Edition
- 4.5 Edition Character Compendiums where I have gathered all 4th Edition material and errate related to a particular class into one document, with some 5th edition non-combat flavors. The Wizard compendium is for example a 212 pages document, but then it has all related powers, paragon paths and epic destinies in one document, for easy player reference.
- 4.5 Edition Character Background Compendium merging the 4th edition character themes with the 5th edition character background concepts, which has really brought forward the roleplaying aspects back into 4th edition.
- 4.5 Edition Race Compendium with all 4th Edition race related rules into one document, with the 5th edition flavor text.

I really like the combination, and as I will focus on mainly using non-4th edition adventures, I believe I get the best from two Worlds (the H1-E3 series was too combat-centric, and I feel we have lost some of the roleplaying aspects just due to this fact). I have also redesigned the 4th Edition character sheets to fit my World but also my own 4.5 Edition rules. I am attaching one such character so you can see the concept and compare it to traditional 4th Edition <Download>.

With all these changes I feel I have the Edition I want to play in the future and can freely borrow from both 5th Edition and 4th Edition going forward.

/Myrhdraak