Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[Dragonhelm]

He said that Bazaar of the Bizarre would be called Magic Shop because Magic Shop "is self explanatory".

Not only did Bazaar have flavor, it was traditional. Anybody who had read more than one issue of Dragon knew what it was.

I remember picking up some old Dragon magazines, and when I saw Bazaar of the Bizarre in an issue, I would get excited.

I also remember when Tasha's Hideous Laughter was uncontrollable...

EDIT: Just saw that Bazaar is coming back. One suggestion - more bizarre in the Bazaar. Those oddball magic items were some of my favorites.


Perhaps re-reading some of the old issues of Dragon, resurrecting some old articles, and getting back to the very heart of the magazine is in order.

Hey Erik, on a tangent, is it possible we'll ever see the d20 minigames from Polyhedron collected together into a single source, maybe with a few new minigames?

I'd buy such a book in a second.

I second this motion!

 

[PJ-Mason]

Great thread. Thanks for asking, Erik.
My last Dragon issue was the first with the price hike, so i've been out of it for a little while.

I have a hundred ideas milling about in my head, but i'll stick to a handful of things.

1)I've only ever read one story arc that i particularly liked (the Fool Wolf stories). By and large they left me cold, or i just didn't read them. Chalk up another anti-fiction vote. I'm surprised at the majority of that sentiment. Pleasantly so.

2)I like the idea of a revolving setting specific article. One month Greyhawk, one FR, one (*gulp*) Eberron, etc. Everyone just has to wait their turn. I'd be much happier with a "every setting gets shot" set-up. Thats fair. Especially fan-based or 3rd party material, if its possible money/legal wise. Although i understand if that seems a little too....Reality TV meets RPGs. This will also make sure that when that Greyhawk (or whichever) article comes around, you'll had enough time to make sure it is quality. That being said, i'd like to see Dragon keep things as generic as possible when it comes to the majority of the articles in any one issue. When you spotlight one setting, you are alienating a majority of the fans regardless of that setting. Why knee-cap yourself like that before the reader even reads the article? Especially in this age of setting-partianship that we are in! One setting article an issue can't hurt anybody, but more than one or two gives rise to the voice of the Cranky Ones.

3)Like so many others, i think the ratio of mechanics to "fluff" is unbalanced. As of my last issue it seems like the ratio was 70/30 (in favor of mechanics). I'd like to see it at least 50/50, if not leaning in the opposite direction. I also agree with the poster that said 10 casual feats do not equal one carefully crafted feat....nailed it on the head!! In interest of public safety, i'll say nothing of prestige classes.....Quality beats quantity every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!

4) Minature rules should have its own rag. Get out of Dragon!! Okay, so that was more emotional than logical. Sue me.

5)I like the historic articles like the ones for the historic cities and the ones for castles, etc. Those are fun reads! I can see where some think they are boring, but they are often the first ones i'll go for.

Well, if i think of more ideas, i'll post them. Don't know if it was helpful, but there it is!

 

[Ghostwind]

Erik-


First off, I applaud your efforts to solicit the opinions of gamers who may or may not be readers. You've got your work cut out for you. Now onto your questions...

1. Why don't you buy Dragon?
Like what someone else said, I'm not your target market. I buy maybe 4 issues a year because most of what is there doesn't really interest me. I used to subscribe or buy every month for years during the 1E/2E times. But I quit about 2 or 3 years before 3.0 was launched. Why? Because I outgrew it and had more information in those 250-300 issues or so than I would ever be able to use. So, I decided to quit buying, period.

2. What would it take to bring you back?
For starters, more value for the price. Give me a reason to pay that hefty subscription price. How?

1. Offer pdf copies of the issues for download in a password-protected subscriber only section of the website. I use a laptop extensively at the gaming table and having the ability to cut/paste information from an issue would make me more inclined to use the material in the magazine for my game.

2. As others have said, have the E-Tools datasets available as soon as the issue is available. If I can use it in E-Tools, I will be more receptive to it.

3. Themed issues are okay, but it needs to be broader in scope. Make an effort to make Dragon more than a Wotc-only club. Instead of an article that talks about using Complete Arcane in Eberron, why not have an article that focuses on using material from say, Spells & Magic from Bastion Press or Occult Lore from Atlas Games? Show players how they can enrich their game with material other than just Wotc's.

4. Use Dragon as a teaching tool. Every issue doesn't need to be packed with tons of new game mechanics. There is more out there than anyone can ever use. Instead, give me articles that I can use to not only grow the hobby but also show other players why they would want to buy the magazine on a regular basis. Article ideas along this line of thought would be: using skills in new and interesting ways, how to understand and play each alignment with lots of examples, practical uses for zero level spells, how to easily track and maintain spell components without bogging down gameplay, understanding when a character should go with a ranged weapon and then choosing the right one, and so forth.

5. Give me the tools to create things. If, as a player, I want to build a keep, show me how. Don't give me 10 different castles already made up. Take me through step by step on the construction, the costs, and suggested modes of offense/defense (complete with costs). Then once the basics are covered, refer me to other good sources, such as Stronghold Builder's Guide and Fields of Blood. Don't be afraid to make recommendations beyond the scope of Wotc books.

6. Give me fiction, but temper it with good game mechanics. Having the fiction is fine if I have a point of reference. The main character uses a new spell? Include it. An interesting NPC or two is presented? Fully stat 'em out so they are ready to be used in my game. Make the game material relevant to the fiction (and vice versa). Want to introduce new crunch? Give us some solid fiction that we can wrap the game concepts around. For example, in Mongoose's Slayer's Guide to Trolls there was a small fiction sidebar that illustrated using trolls as PCs. A troll was nursing a broken nose while it healed and the party druid was translating a discussion between it and the barbarian (who had broke its nose). End result, the troll joined the party because she found the barbarian to be cute. The fiction set the example on using the troll as a PC.

7. More open content. I'm not saying the entire magazine needs to be open content, but having at least an article or two in every issue (with a proper OGC/section 15 designation) would go a long way for me. Get other publishers on board. Have members of their prospective design teams write an article in return for a discounted rate on an ad. For example, have Tom Knauss (Bastion) contribute an article on a locale in Wildwood or Henry Lopez do something on an organization in Arcanis.

8. Bring back the product reviews. One of the things I enjoyed about Dragon when I collected it years ago was that they would do reviews of products and those reviews were fair, honest, and weren't afraid to speak ill of a product. Review not only Wotc products, but also other d20/OGL company works. But instead of writing reviews like what you read on the web, get people who work in the industry to write the reviews. Have people who understand the design philosophies and reasons why products are put together in a certain way. For example, ask Jamie Chambers to write a review of Torn Asunder or Andy Collins to review Advanced Bestiary. Not only do you get a review from a person who likely understands what the author(s) were trying to achieve, but also they can point out where the book succeeds and where it breaks down and, more importantly, why.

9. Playtesting. To be honest, you need this badly. Others here have gone into better detail about the reasons why and I will only echo their sentiments. Work harder to make things more balanced. Get a good group of playtesters and make sure the submitted articles have been gone through thoroughly before one last final edit.

10. Attitude. If there is one thing that is missing from Dragon for me, it's the attitude of being the best. At one time, Dragon could be relied upon to be totally kick butt with every issue because it had an in-your-face attitude. A lot of that was due to the high quality art and the even higher quality articles. Up the ante a bit. Make your articles more original, more daring, more innovative. I don't want to read about another sub-race of elf that has an incredible prestige class and is so powerful that no one will ever want to play anything but it again. I want an article that illustrates the tactical strategies of kobolds against a party of low, mid and high level characters. Show me how to not only kill the party, but make the players absolutely fear the word 'kobold' when I speak it. Likewise, show me how I can play my elf so he becomes feared by orcs by using just the core rules and maybe one or two new tricks.

11. Include more articles from established professionals. Certain authors develop 'sub-cult' followings among gamers. Why not develop a feature article series that spotlights these folks? Have Wil Upchurch go into the hows and whys of designing NPCs. Does he tend to use common feats or templates? If so, why? What is his thought process when he has to create a certain level villain? Let the gamers get closer to the designers. By giving designers a bit of the spotlight, you open the doors for increased sales down the road. If Wil's first article is a hit and generates buzz, then you can use that to your advantage 8 months down the road when he does a follow-up. This point can even be tied into point number 7 above.

12. Give me more world neutral articles. Show me how to use this stuff from Eberron in a non-Eberron setting. The Ecology of ... articles are great in this aspect because I can use them in virtually any campaign world that I am currently running. Give me articles that easily transcend the borders of different settings with little or no work. For example, show me how to fight a dragon and live without coming up with a new PrC or feats. Show me how brains can be better than steel. Then, in a followup article in that issue or next's, detail how a dragon performs best in combat.

13. More flavor with that crunch. Presenting new and interesting game mechanics is always fun. But go the extra mile and wrap a lot of flavor around that crunchy mechanic. Got a new feat? Why does it exist? How can it be used? What would inspire a player to select it and use it in a game? Give me scenarios and situations that I can point to and say, "Oh, now I understand why he gets that special ability."

Lastly, I know that Dungeon is meant for GMs while Dragon is a player's magazine, but a lot of players are DMs and vice versa. With the bulk of Dungeon dedicated to adventures, it becomes quite difficult to include the number of DM related articles that I would like to see. So bring Dragon back into the realm of being a magazine for everyone and not just one party.

Regardless how this all turns out, I wish you all of the luck in the world concerning the future of Paizo and its magazines.

 

[velm]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

I actually had a subscription for a while. Think it was for about 3 years or so, been a while. I think it started with issue 167, might have been a little over, not sure, I remember a few after the issue with the holographic cover, 200.

I dont play as regular as I would like to now, back then, I think i was also in a lapse for players. I was still into it, but hard to do with not as many players.

I really love some of the articles, they can really throw alot of good ideas into the mix. Some of the ones that I like are:

the various ecologies, they give a 'feel' for the monster
new magic items, always a welcome thing
new monsters, again, interesting challenges
variations on something standard, like the witch, and various paladins (from 1st ed, obviously) but the effect is still the same. They can add to gameplay.
I miss the various reviews of computer games and other role playing games.

why do i NOT get it anymore? tough one there. Very hard to answer, I used to look forward to seeing them at the Waldens, and flip thru them, now I just give it cursory glance if any. Not sure why. I think the current 3E system is a great thing but hard to place why the magazine does not spark anything in me anymore. I have not seen any current artwork, but back in the day it had a had a great feel to it. Still not in any regular group, i have a few dry spells whenever i move. I am in the military, and sometimes when I go on deployments it can be difficult to get mail, and storing in on a ship when underway for 6 months can be rough. kinda bad excuse, but that is one minor reason.

One of the best things ever done was that DRAGON on disk setup. It is a great reference tool. It is a shame another cannot be done to update it. I would gladly shell out $30 for a current listing of dragons on cd. it is also a great space saver as well.

(WOW, I started this BEFORE GHOSTWIND did his post. Strange on how close they are. So you can tack this onto Ghostwinds )

 

[Olive]

Like many others, I do buy dragon but I'm not sure I'll keep buying Dragon. I mostly buy it now to collect.

And like others, I'm pretty sure one reason is that Dungeon is now the killer mag. All the good stuff from Dragon is in Dungeon now, and given that I DM primarily, all the useful stuff is there.

I have liked some recent articles: the darkness stuff, the home town stuff was all interesting. But my campaign is pretty much set and my players are fairly well along.

Like others, I also hate the fiction, but unlike most fo the others I have an idea about how to fix it! I'm not sure if you've ever read Sep's Story Hour but he writes what is essentially fan fiction in a very interesting way, making a fair amount of in story and footnote reference to game concepts. Far too often the fiction bears no resemblence to the game that I play. With Sep's SH, there is never any doubt how that worked in game terms. Like someone said, I can get normal fiction anywhere, but a quality, game referencing on going serial would really hold my attention.

But the best point is that Dragon alcks direction. I know it's the players magazine, but what does that mean? Dungeon isn't the DMs mag, it's the agazine for time-strapped DMs (and to a lesser extent Greyhawk fans). And that's a very clear focus that the magazine is currently filling extraordinarily well.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Disregard this post

My opinion differs from the majority here.
I subscribe. I love the magazine. It gets better all the time.

Stop including fiction. Ecologies are fine, and when they included fictional accounts from adventurers, that was okay for illustrative purposes, but I don't buy Dragon for the fiction and I never will. That's what I buy novels and anthologies for.

I like crunch. That IS what I buy Dragon for, in large part. Flavorful, theme-driven spells, prestige classes, items, and so forth are great. Keep them coming.

I don't think that everyhing I read in Dragon is unbalanced, and I do believe that I can judge or house-rule what I want. I doubt you have the resources to playtest everything thoroughly.

Leave Gygax alone. He's done his time, and now has other priorities.

Please, please, please, don't squander pages on example NPC's for every presitge class published. When the NPC is the point of the article, fine, but WotC's books shouldn't waste pages, and neither should Paizo.

Thanks Erik. I love Dragon and have faith in you.

 

[Turjan]

Hi Erik,

I'm in the crowd with those people who still have a subscription, but are not really convinced whether that's a good expenditure. A few things can't be helped: Dragon is a magazine directed to players, and I'm more on the DM side of the table. That's why I love my Dungeon magazine . On the other hand, with Dragon I often find me just flipping through the magazine when it arrives and put it away afterwards. Maybe, I read "Elminster's Guide" and Nodwick, and that's about it.

I won't repeat all of the reasons other people have aired so far, just stress a few things that are most important in my book.

1) After several years of 3E, I'm just fed up with prestige classes and feats. The days when every new prestige class was something innovative are long gone. I just don't look at them anymore if they don't have a very good reason. A very good reason, I said !

2) In my case, the words half-dragon and half-troll result in immediate reading abort. I like the suggestion from further above to bring more articles of how to play the core material intelligently. This helps the players - and also the not so versed DMs .

3) On first glance, this point concerns Dungeon: I'm one of those people who liked to see Polyhedron go. However, Dragon made a change I did not appreciate at all by becoming a WotC/core D&D only magazine. These pages over pages of advertising material disguised as magazine content rubbed me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against WotC; I like my D&D. But somehow this change devaluated the magazine. Usually you get your ad magazines for free in your mailbox. A magazine with the claim to further gaming should have a broader perspective. It should deliver honest reviews. The narrow focus on WotC material leads to this same old same old feeling. This does not mean that I do not like my campaign flavour stuff .

4) Too much about miniatures. I don't like them and I don't use them. More important, I don't play the miniatures game.

Well, I'm not very fond of Eberron, either, but that's a different cup of tea. I see that many people love that setting, and with a little effort, that stuff can still be useful for me. Maybe, a few conversion notes would be fine .

 

[Swordsage]

Hey Erik

I'll be brutally honest - and I'm way, way in the minority here and I know that: I buy DRAGON for FR content. No FR article and the magazine is usually pretty unnattractive to me. But I've realised that this is the case not because of lack of FR content necessarily, it's lack of flavor content as a whole

I do think that a regular FR presence (other than Ed's infrequent articles - when was the last time Ed got to write an article that was longer than 2 pages sans pictures?) in DRAGON would be a positive selling point for readers, especially if we got coverage on all the other campaign settings as well. I don't mind Greyhawk material (I just re-read one of my old Gord the Rogue novels) and I haven't seen enough of Eberron to make a judgement, but I think campaign flavour is what the magazine needs - whatever the setting.

Big FR articles that weren't 90% crunch such as the Cult of the Dragon article back in #110 and the Wyrms of the North columns were great (and used by many DMs - not just FR ones). Similarly, I fondly recall the great Dragotha article for Greyhawk and other such articles over the many years. The taleteller in me would rather see a write-up of a +2 sword with a great story and history behind it, than a +5 undead bane, disrupting, thermonuclear, world-destroying blade with no sense of "self" or how to use it in your game. And if we do have to have a +5 undead bane, disrupting, thermonuclear, world-destroying blade, isn't it better if it has that story and background attached to it?

Oh, and again on an FR front, I am absolutely gobsmacked that a much-published author like Eric Boyd has had one, single article printed in DRAGON over the last 6+ years. And I know that hasn't been through lack of trying. Let's crank up the lore - whatever the setting and leave the plusses to their own devices!

Thanks for listening.

-- George Krashos

 

[Sholari]

Thanks,

Kenneth New

Hey Ken,

How are the Knights of the Blue Flame doing these days?

 

[countgray]

What inspires me to buy Dragon Magazine?

Sense of wonder. Articles that capture my imagination with the possibilities I can use in my game. Tips on DM'ing, puzzles & riddles to use in my game, interesting characters, cool campaign ideas.

I really love Forgotten Realms lore & history & details about unexplored places.

I love stuff about the planes and if I hear of articles dealing with the planes or oustiders I will go chasing around to find particular Dragon issues.

I love the articles on Monster Ecologies -- how they fit into the world, secrets you didn't know about the monsters, odd little tidbits about anatomy, what they eat, their origins, history, psychology, relations with other races. If you can supplement such articles with maps of their lairs or graphics illustrating their biology you can really capture my attention.

I do like the Sage advice with helpful advice on using and interpreting rules.

I like tips on painting minis, or on making scenery or battlemaps to use. I love the battlemap inserts that Dragon sometimes has, I can't get enough of those!

I really do not like new prestige classes & new mechanics. I much prefer ideas to rules & mechanics.

Sorry, but I do not care for fiction in Dragon. While I have enjoyed the odd fiction piece or two in Dragon, for the most part I skip them and kind of resent them taking up space that could be better used.

I really enjoyed some of the material supporting older editions. I got a big kick out of the issue that had articles revisiting all the old campaign settings. I loved the Dark Sun updates you did. I would love to see more of that in the future.

If you could do a Planescape Setting issue sometime, or even just an occasional planescape article I would jump for joy.

I love the Ed Greenwood Forgotten Realms articles. If you could have an Ed Greenwood article in every issue I would be thrilled.

Languages also thrill me. You did some articles on Elven & Draconic & other languages awhile back. I would love to see articles on Orcish language, Celestial, Abyssal, Infernal, Aquan, Sylvan, and other fantasy languages, complete with glossaries and interesting grammar. If you could commission alphabets/scripts/runes to go with the articles those would be must buys for me.