Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

I already posted my thoughts back on page 3 or 4, but thought I'd post something I found. I have the following issues of Dragon

#148
#224
#293
#294

Impressive collection, huh? Anyway, the Editorial in issue #224(12/95) was called "Building a Better Dragon". It had to do with Dragon going through changes then. Here's the overview of the changes the article described as "Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue."

- Something blue - Price going from $3.95 to $4.95

- Something borrowed - The readers - they let Dragon know what they wanted and Dragon responded.

- Something new - "1. More color-Full four-color capability, will give you a new livelier Dragon without sacrificing readability. 2. More articles-We're tightening our articles, removing fluff and leaving the meat, thus room for more information. 3. New features-Features intended to be more directly useful at the gaming table. 4. New attitude-Definately a dragon's attitude. Feisty and opinionated."

- Something old - "Dragonmirth, Forums, Letters and popular features will remain."

Interesting to see what the RPG community wanted almost tens years ago.
 

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I want crunch that goes with the fluff printed. I don't want just plain old crunch with no fluff to it. I want to see more Greyhawk content.
 
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Looks like Erik still hasn't filled the readers in here, so although I agree with so much of what has been said I'll throw my voice in too. And there are some discrepancies, just to keep things interesting......

First, I AM a subscriber to both magazines. Just subscribed to Dungeon again, after I found myself buying more issues off the shelf than a year's sub would cost me. Dragon I almost let lapse, but in the clinch decided to give it another year to see the changes (and to keep the collection going).

Second, I make sure to read every issue cover to cover, although I am now three issues back since one came in yesterday (other demands of life and other great things to read including other RPG material). I don't enjoy it all equally, however.

Of the existing items:
- I have yet to find any real nugget of use in the miniatures articles
- I enjoy fiction. As long as it was replaced with something useful I could let it go, but definitely drop miniatures first! (On the other hand, having four issues with a multi-part story by the same author was too much.)
- The recent ecologies are not as entertaining as the prior "story" ones.
- The class articles seem to pass on the buck and rehash items in another shape. I've seen at least two if not three "flaws" articles. The fact that it's moved to another class does little.
- There is less overall "fun", meaning a decline in comics and I miss the zany April issues.
- I like the new races, but like the prestige classes I can see where it's going to get old after a while.

Things gone:
- I didn't mind the few pages of "future WOTC offerings" add a while back, but please do NOT go back to having the bulk of whole issues, each issue devoted to a book that will come out two months in the future. I let my subscription lapse when it became the "product of next month" mouthpiece.
- Gygax is gone, and I probably wouldn't care to see him come back. But I did enjoy "our old game" recollections, so maybe stories by other "pros" with their memories would be good. Sort of like the editorial, but another one that swaps people each month.
- I enjoyed the Three Mages stories. Fiction-like yes, but if it was given some underpinnings on new spells or magic items, then it might squeeze in under the "no fiction" radar that I'm seeing is prevelent here.
- I enjoyed the few medieval cities we saw in the past. I remember London and (I think) Vienna. Bring them or something similar back please! Expand them even more if possible, to the point where I can see/smell/explain/present it to the players. (I'm looking foward to the sewer article as I catch up on reading the mags.)
- I didn't really enjoy "Knight vs. Samurai", but can't put a definite finger on what it was. It seemed to circle on minutiae so much that it ended up losing my attention and any definite thesis/point by the end, but perhaps I was in the wrong mood.

Suggestions for future:
- Yes please, and Index/database! (available online so I can download and search)
- Yes please, the availability to pull them off in PDF format! If you could find a way to meld them in with my Dragon archives CD and have the whole bulk searchable then I will nominate you for sainthood. (But note - I don't want to have to go to PDF-only format.)
- Price creep needs to slow if not stop and reverse. I can get huge discounts on almost anything else through Publishers, wholesalemags, etc. why not Dragon? (OK, it's the size of the distribution I'm sure, 65000 sounds like a lot but is most assuredly a drop compared to Newsweek, Entertainment Weekly, etc.)
- I would be open to a small section of non-fantasy. I enjoyed the Polyhedron stuff, and would be willing to see Star Wars, Modern, Future, (and eventually Past or Apocalyptic) material show up inside a few pages each issue.

What could I REALLY use? Unfortunately, I think the answers to this are supposed to go in Dungeon as defined. But I don't think they (currently) give enough space to do any of the ideas justice so I'll post them here for consideration:
- NPC groups/organizations. There were some of these in previous Dragons, but I don't just want people and stats, I want how they really interact with their environment, the plots they are/could be up to.
- Similarly, I want material that I can use to give depth to the world. Ways of intrigue/politicking, the perils and benefits of nobility, governments in action, guilds and their caravans, how a church hierarchy actually works (or doesn't) ... as defined mostly by how they interact with the rest of the world.
- Mini settings. I liked how Shanarra, Robin Hood, and Westeros were presented. I am not an expert on the underlying materials; rather, I like the fact they were presented as a cohesive package. I would really enjoy authors, maybe again some of those RPG "pros" out there that could convincingly present a mini setting by culling out pertinent pieces of the already EXISTING material (especially from previous Dragon issues). Sort of "look, if we pull these (few) prestige classes and these feats, and flavor things slightly 'so' then we have a very good approximation of an XYZ setting" (and if you could actually tack a name on it that might flag the readers even further, like "Lankhmar", "Dune", "Song of Roland", "Beowulf", "Harold the Saxon", "Midkemia" etc. it would be even better.)

Finally, to get more subscribers there really should be a subscriber benefit. Used to be the annuals fit that bill and I'd love a 13th issue again each year, but inserts into subscriber polybags that wouldn't show up on a store shelf (maybe something along the line of the things DMs and/or players can get from the RPGA) or access to web extras might fit that bill too.

Well, there you go! My long shopping list, of which the return of even a part would brighten my day.
 

scourger said:
That first line is a little too harsh.
You're right, of course - it is harsh.

That rant has been inside me for a long time now, and I needed to let it go. I'm not proud of it, but there it is.
 

For me the presence of fiction is a real turn off to the magazine. If I wanted short stories I'd read a literary magazine or an anthology. I'd rather see more gaming content in it's place. I like the more generic style of content that Dragon is currently running, but I wouldn't mind the occasional, out of left field type of article. One thing I would definitely like to see is more psionics support. Also I've seen it mentioned that some people don't like the trade magazine type of feel, but for me and my wife it works, because we want the information, and we will put our own spin on it.
 

Shade said:
I've been a subscriber since early 3E, so I will follow wilder_jw and tell you why I'd let my subscription lapse.

1.) Knight vs. Samurai style articles. That issue had me seriously pondering dropping the magazine the next time renewal was up. In fact, most of the post-"Dragon Unleashed" issues have excited me about as much as junk mail. About the only things I've really liked lately are the revised monsters from past editions in Winning Races (grippli, lupins), the occasional new monster, the comics, and Sage Advice.

2.) I'm going to second wilder_jw on fiction. I've never read a single fiction article in Dragon and never intend to (and I was a 1E subscriber for many years and purchased the archive on CD-ROM). Those pages might as well be advertisements for their usefulness to me.

3.) Maintaining that Dragon be "player-focused", at the expense of DMs. I'll be honest with you, the first thing I look for in a new issue is new monsters, followed by planar material and anything that brings back something great from past editions of the game.

I don't like the class articles at the back of the magazine. I think those are pretty much useless and filler space. I'm not too thrilled with the new format either.

Once I got used to the older format you guys go and change it again :)

Like another poster I'm interested in Greyhawk material particularly the LGG and if it comes back to Dragon, I'll renew my subscription but most likley I'll keep my Dungeon subscription and let the Dragon one lapse.

I also like Ed Greenwood Realms articles and I haven't seen much of those in the past. I don't mind the ficition. I think its always been there so why CHANGE it. I've been reading Dragon since issue #54, I missed most of the 2e era but have very 3e/3.5 issue.

Mike
 

People been complaining the price per issue and per year of dragon magazine. Think people. D&D is a very niche hobby with added problem of the products are not high volume turn over or low volume high price turn over.
I and my wife play with trains. An O gauge(think Lionel set) beginner set will cost around $180, for an HO gauge(think matchbox or the race car track you played with as a kid) set start around $70. Individual pieces can start from around $1 for a piece or two of track, to $500 for a engine.
OGR (O gauge railroading magazine) last year monthly numbers were 33,189 copies with one year (7 issues) being $31.95, 2 years $59.95, 3 years $84.95
Classic toy trains (covers all gauges but generally smaller than O gauge) last year monthly number were 60,130 copies. 1 year (9 issues) $39.95, 2 years $74.95, 3 years $106.95.
Pick up a flip through a copy of one of those and compare the ad space to the Dragon. More ads with few colors. Less articles.
 

Ok Erik, things have settled down, and it has been a couple days since you said you would post what you have planned already. I can't wait to hear what you already have in store and are teasing us with.
 

The Shaman said:
And thank you for waving a big middle-finger at all of use who bought Dungeon/Polyhedron. You've reinforced why I do not, and will not, buy your products.

I've rarely used anything from Dungeon, but I use material from Polyhedron all the time, in both my fantasy and Modern games - I've created whole campaign-settings off Polyhedron mini-games.

There was more creativity and spirit in those handful of pages six times a year than in any dozen issues of Dragon. I'm sorry that you don't get that.

Ahem.

Not only _do_ I get that, but I was almost wholly responsible for it. I loved the Polyhedron section of Dungeon, which I created out of nothing. But it wasn't economically viable, and so I reshaped Dungeon into something that could be more commercially successful.

Further, I only just took over the helm of Dragon, so aside from a couple of articles I wrote and the Living Greyhawk Journal section of old (which I also edited), none of the negative feedback on this thread offends me in the least. In fact, I agree with a lot of it.

I'm sorry that Polyhedron didn't work out. Probably moreso than anyone.

--Erik Mona
Editor, Polyhedron
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
 

Brown Jenkin said:
Ok Erik, things have settled down, and it has been a couple days since you said you would post what you have planned already. I can't wait to hear what you already have in store and are teasing us with.

Yeah!

A.
 

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