Why are d20 Mecha so slow?

[Achan hiArusa]

See question above. A slow 3/5 mech in battletech has a basic movement of 170 ft. per round, while the Locust LCT IV has a basic movement of 456 ft. per round. So a "slow" Atlas could walk rings around the Tempest from the d20 future website (which itself could barely manage a hex a round without making a full movement, and could move 3 hexes a round at a full out run). And this is not a full round movement either, Battletech mechs can walk, fire, and physically attack all in the same 10 second round, so if you cut the round down to a 6 second round, that would eliminate one of the attack phases.

Here is the conversion if you doubt me:

x hexes/rd (* 30 m/hex * 1/10 rd/sec * 3600 s/hr * 1/1000 km/m * 0.6 mi/km * 5280 ft/mi * 1/3600 hr/s * 6 s/rd) which gives a conversion factor of 57 (ft*bt rd)/(hexes*d20 rd).

And I won't even get into how slow the fly speeds are.

 

[DMScott]

I would imagine it's because they're scaled to D&D-type speeds, which in turn are scaled to a battlemap with 5' squares. On the downside, that makes them unreasonably slow; on the plus side, it means you can do things like have mecha fight dragons with infantry running around, and all use the same battlemat and scale. One of those classic realism vs. playability tradeoffs.

 

[wingsandsword]

Are you using the same measurement for "round", i.e. 6 seconds? I don't know battletech, so I can't say that we're comparing the same units here.

Also, as has been said, this is just one system. Frankly, you can't accomodate every possible sci-fi setting in one 222 page book. Just like how some people on the WotC boards are complaining the example FTL drives in the starships chapter are slower than the engines in their favorite setting, people will complain that mechs/mecha aren't identical to their favorite setting. d20 Future is a toolkit, not gospel. It is examples, mechanics, and systems that could theoretically be used "out of the box" for something, but are fully intended to be tinkered with to fit your setting of choice.

Sci fi has a lot of variety in it, so does fantasy. The only reason people don't complain more that D&D doesn't accurately reflect their favorite fantasy worlds is because it's a de facto standard for being around so long (and many popular fantasy worlds were written for D&D), if they made mechs/mecha faster to be compatible with battletech, they'd be too fast for another setting. Evangelions are my mecha of choice, personally, and the mecha in the d20 Future book take some significant adapting to fit (like figuring out how to treat an AT Field, I'm personally calling it DR 200/Epic & Energy Resistance (All) 200 while active).

 

[Ranger REG]

Are you using the same measurement for "round", i.e. 6 seconds? I don't know battletech, so I can't say that we're comparing the same units here.

In BattleTech tactical boardgame, a tactical round lasts 10 seconds.

HOWEVER, in MechWarrior roleplaying game (third edition), a tactical round lasts 5 seconds.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Honestly?

Don't try porting ANY Mecha from Rifts, Battletech or Robotech right now.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Honestly?

Don't try porting ANY Mecha from Rifts, Battletech or Robotech right now.

Hrm...here's the obvious question. When can we?

Brad

 

[Furluge]

Yeah but also in Mechwarrior (2nd ed. I never did pick up 3rd.) hexes are 5m as compared to Btech's 30m hexes.

Also have you considred using the mecha d20 SRD to try and convert mecha from Btech. Not saying it still won't be horrid (Damn you penalties to additional attacks!) but it's a lot more flexible than the d20 future rules.

http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/d20/srd/#mecha

 

[jester47]

I hate to say it, but the Mcrusade rules (the ones in d20 future) do not seem to model the true mecha very well. Mecha d20 is a better system IMO and has a Btech feel to it.

Aaron.

 

[Ranger REG]

Honestly?

Don't try porting ANY Mecha from Rifts, Battletech or Robotech right now.

Why not?

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Why not?

OK, I'll do the rundown...

Mecha have low slots, comparitively, they have standard armor, and would require "armor slot" revision. Power plant revision. External slot revision.

It took me awhile to come up with a system where TRUE "Lord of Battle" could be design, and honestly, caused me to totally rebuild the Mecha construction rules, basing them on the d20 Future Mecha creation rules.

Forget trying to create a SAMAS suit via d20 Future.

SAMAS suits are:

Environmentally sealed, radiation proof, capable of space use, highly manueverable during flight. Has a missle weapon, a Rail Gun (Hand held, so we will say, it does not take a slot), a targeting computer, communications, radar, etc. It vastly improves the pilots combat capabilities, even to the point of adding an extra attack (Well, actually Robot Combat: Elite (SAMAS) does that, so we'll put all those bonuses in the feat.

So, in order to do that, we over-run the slots.

We have to develope new equipment to compensate for the bonuses.
We need to develope new feats and skills.

That's just for the SAMAS. Forget the Super SAMAS, the SF SAMAS, the Navy SAMAS, the UAR-1 Enforcer (old, crap tech according to Rifts, but still a formidable battle bot), etc.

I tried to make the port, and the bots lost the feel, and frankly, were considered "craptacular" (To quote Hammerhead Matt) by the players.

Yes, it is good for Mecha Crusade, and good for most other people. Hey, probably most people consider it overpowered and I've even seen people say that CR should upgraded.

Personally, it could not handle the 'ports, as written without feeling let down, and substandard.

And yes, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I did rebuild the system, playtested from June till now, and am in the process of transcribing it.

But that's not the subject.

Why not?

Because the mech's don't feel the same.