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D&D General why are dwarves harder to think of varients for?

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
What your asking, to me, is what actually makes an origin an origin.

Removed from their typical environment.
Remove culture or stereotype attitudes, behaviors or mannerism.

What's left?

The 'biological' is really all that 5e has remaining.

This is a major reason why I find floating ASI an absolute abomination as a standard as its just one more piece removed in what defines an origin.

BG3 really hammers this home with how boring the origin options are.
If two points of Constitution are the only rhing defining what a dwarf is, we are already beyond hope.

Ability score bonuses are always the least interesting or productive part of a concept. Look to the racial features, not the stat bonuses. I genuinely don't understand why people put such massive emphasis on literally the single most boring part, as though it were this essential thing that when violated destroys everything else, when a game that did away with racial bonuses entirely would still be just as flavorful.
 

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Voadam

Legend
If two points of Constitution are the only rhing defining what a dwarf is, we are already beyond hope.

Ability score bonuses are always the least interesting or productive part of a concept. Look to the racial features, not the stat bonuses. I genuinely don't understand why people put such massive emphasis on literally the single most boring part, as though it were this essential thing that when violated destroys everything else, when a game that did away with racial bonuses entirely would still be just as flavorful.
B/X D&D has no stat adjustments for non humans.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
There's absolutely no reason why dwarves can't have a largely sea-going culture,
Welll…there’s ONE reason. They’re often depicted as having a very dense physiology. IOW, they’re not going to float very well.

Certainly, human sailors didn’t start off as good swimmers, but we’re at least buoyant. I’m not sure dwarves as typically described could float without mechanical assistance. While that could definitely happen with a race stereotypically depicted as master crafters, they’d probably view open water with a bit more wariness than humans would, and would come to seafaring very late. Couple that with their lifespans, and that could be well after the seas were claimed by other species.
 

I always took a different slant on dwarves in that 98% of them are non-violent craftsmen, artisans and the like. Only a small number need to be warriors. Most live in highly defensible caverns where (aside from Xorn) there is little that can "ambush" a Dwarven community. Creatures with "dig" speeds make noise that Dwarven stonecunning would detect many minutes before contact.

It is difficult to burn a Dwarven cavern to ash but surface dwellers often lose all in a fire. This also means that while individual elves can live longer, the average dwarf lifespan is longer than the average elven lifespan as many elven communities are more vulnerable to attack.

With longer lives comes higher average skills for artisans. Combined with the greater ability to preserve generational wealth, dwarves are effectively the wealthiest people.

My Dwarven cities are fantastical, but in non-elven ways. Everyone has darkvision and no need to worry about sunlight so they can use village lighting as a form of art. Scultured murals designed to warp and twist the shadows of those who pass by, continual flame lanterns behind colored glass, use of phosphorescent or flourescent stones, etc. Metalworks exist in volumes unseen elsewhere; from the simply incredible number of cast-iron railings, stairs, and fixtures to the amazingly detailed scrollwork and enengravings.

Dwarven cities dont really sleep. There is no day, no night. Some large cities have time zones, with each part of the city on their own sleep cycle. Smaller communities may have two cycles.

Some groups or areas will "hot bunk", with shared beds across cycles, essentially cutting housing needs in half. Others keep the whole household on the same cycle. There are cultural, economic and philosophical differences between the two and there are variances between regions.

Do you share beds because you are poor and need to save money or because your community wants more space to dedicate to parks, the arts and leisure? Do the people see leaving a bed empty as a wasteful sin?

Dwarven toxin resistance explains how they drink stronger alcohols, but it also makes sense as it is higher caloric density. Dwarves don't just make strong drink, they import high proof distilled alcohols with distinct flavors. A 350yro bartender who specializes in mixed drinks and can drink watered down turpentine is both incredible and horrifying. Dwarven mixed drinks are range between exquisite and stomach churning.

As others have said, Dwarven biology means they eat foods others would have issues with. Take any regional extreme and dial it up to 12. Dwarven chiles are insanely hot, their pickled cabbage is eye wateringly pungent, they eat that part of the fugu no one else can, potted meats are reduced to colloidal semisolids, etc, etc. In part its because living underground they have limited crop choices so spices and curing/pickling has to add flavors, but also because those things hide the less appealing aspects of foods dwarves can eat but don't specifically enjoy.

Let's not discuss Dwarven perfumes. They are....highly regional. And often toxic to non-dwarves.

I do want to touch on tradition. Dwarves IMC hold things that have proven to stand the test of time in high regard. Keywords there being "test" and "proven". They aren't hide bound, refusing to change because new is "scary" but they see no reason to assume "new" means "better". Most have lived long enough to see the same bad ideas come back around after a century or so. They are perfectly capable of adopting something new that has tangible benefits. (A new flavor qualifies as a tangible benefit, hence the culinary variety)
 
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Clint_L

Hero
Welll…there’s ONE reason. They’re often depicted as having a very dense physiology. IOW, they’re not going to float very well.

Certainly, human sailors didn’t start off as good swimmers, but we’re at least buoyant. I’m not sure dwarves as typically described could float without mechanical assistance. While that could definitely happen with a race stereotypically depicted as master crafters, they’d probably view open water with a bit more wariness than humans would, and would come to seafaring very late. Couple that with their lifespans, and that could be well after the seas were claimed by other species.
They're a fantasy race. I can just say that my dwarves are super bouyant. They mostly look kinda chubby, anyway.
 


Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
My Dwarven cities are fantastical, but in non-elven ways.
In one campaign, one clan of dwarves lived in a flat, arid environment similar to the Outback. Like Coober Peady & similar Aussie settlements, their settlements were mostly subterranean, with individual families expanding their dwellings by mining. The center of each settlement was a massive, enforced earthen tower constructed over many levels of subterranean excavations. The community is thus protected and temperature controlled.

IOW, an oversized African/Australian termite mound with fungal cultivation and even ice-storage/making like a yakhchāl.
 
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bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Welll…there’s ONE reason. They’re often depicted as having a very dense physiology. IOW, they’re not going to float very well.

Certainly, human sailors didn’t start off as good swimmers, but we’re at least buoyant. I’m not sure dwarves as typically described could float without mechanical assistance. While that could definitely happen with a race stereotypically depicted as master crafters, they’d probably view open water with a bit more wariness than humans would, and would come to seafaring very late. Couple that with their lifespans, and that could be well after the seas were claimed by other species.
Dwarf sailors don't float. They sink to the bottom of the body of water and have to walk to shore or wait for a rope. It's a good thing they have high constitution!
This is also why they mostly hang out on rivers, ponds and shorelines
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
It wouldnt be, it would be less so, as big or small as that difference is to you. If all else is equal, removing origin based ASI IS factually a decrease in differences between options. Its as simple as that.
As @Voadam says, B/X doesn't have such stat effects. Are B/X dwarves suddenly not dwarves because they don't get +2 to some specific stat? Does this delete their unique identity? This isn't some modern fancy, it's almost as old as the hobby itself. Why was no one up in arms about this 40+ years ago?

And if these things are so critical, why have the bonuses changed over time? OD&D and B/X had no bonuses. Most have had a bonus to Con, but some also give Wis, and 4e/5e give the potential option of Con/Str. A Charisma penalty was common in the past, but penalties are gone now. If this is such a rock-bottom essential factor, why has it been so variable?

The real things that make dwarves (and any race) distinct and interesting are their... distinct and interesting characteristics. Features. Stonecunning. Poison resistance. Iron will. Stubbornness. Being a friggin immovable object. Etc. +2 Con is the ultra bland +N Sword of identifying characteristics. Literally almost unnoticeable in most contexts.

"What do your elf eyes see?" is identity. "What does your slightly superior dwarf hardiness resist about one time in twenty?" not so much.
 

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