Why are orcs evil?

[Yuan-Ti]

This topic has probably been done to death here before, but since I just started spending any real amount of time I thought I would bring it up. A post over at the Scarred Lands forums got me thinking about it.

What is it about orcs that makes them evil in D&D settings? Is it because they raid and pillage elven, human, halfling villages, killing indiscrimanetly? Does this mean the Vikings were evil? If you have a setting where a human civilization periodically raids its neighbors, do you consider them evil?

Or is it something else about their society? Because they torture captured enemies? Because they eat them? Because they vandalize objects of art and beauty? Because they are not eco-friendly? What is the difference between orcs and many barbarian civilizations, then? Or are barbarian civilizations evil as well?

Or are they just plain evil and that's as far as you think about it? Elves are generally good. Orcs are generally evil. Black & white. Simple.

Just curious how or if you deal with this in your campaigns.

YT


P.S. Or is it because orcs sleep with their cousins?

 

[Frostmarrow]

Does this mean the Vikings were evil?

YES!

 

[Sammael99]

What is it about orcs that makes them evil in D&D settings? Is it because they raid and pillage elven, human, halfling villages, killing indiscrimanetly? Does this mean the Vikings were evil? If you have a setting where a human civilization periodically raids its neighbors, do you consider them evil?

Or is it something else about their society? Because they torture captured enemies? Because they eat them? Because they vandalize objects of art and beauty? Because they are not eco-friendly? What is the difference between orcs and many barbarian civilizations, then? Or are barbarian civilizations evil as well?

Or are they just plain evil and that's as far as you think about it? Elves are generally good. Orcs are generally evil. Black & white. Simple.

The answer is : because D&D's alignment system is too constrained to admit grey areas.

In my world, orcs are considered Evil, and muchly hated. Yet in one province particularly plagued by orc raiders, the baron has negotiated a peace treaty. The humans still mistrust the orcs and vice versa, but it's more of a grey area whether anyone is good or evil.

From the orcs' point of view, the humans are certainly evil : they have warred on them and tried to exterminate them forever, they occupy the best lands and kill anyone who tries to grab good fruitful lands (namely orcs) and it is a well known facts that the human gods (and that of the other races) divided the world between them at the dawn of time and left the dregs for the orcs...

There you have it

 

[Hand of Evil]

Pull up my soap box...

They are evil because they meet of exceed my defined requirements for evil in my game. (see every post I have made about DMs defining evil).

 

[AGGEMAM]

Is it because they raid and pillage elven, human, halfling villages, killing indiscrimanetly?

Does this mean the Vikings were evil?

If you have a setting where a human civilization periodically raids its neighbors, do you consider them evil?

Yes.

Actually, the Vikings didn't do that a lot. They settled most of Northen Europe by peaceful means.

Probably!

 

[Henry]

Orcs are evil in the Generic D&D setting because their god is evil, and a longtime opposed enemy of the elven god. In this case, form follows function, as the orcs have existed from the beginning to oppose the elves.

In order to qualify as evil, the orcs must show a lack of respect for life, hurt, oppress, and kill others. They should lack compassion for others and be able to kill if doing so is convenient. the might kill for sport or out of duty to their god.

If they don't do these things, they are not evil. They will not do these things BECAUSE they are evil - rather, they will BE evil if they do these things.

It is assumed by default that Orcs in D&D do these things. If your Orcs are different, they will NOT be evil.

 

[shadow]

In my game, orcs aren't evil per se. The usual alignment is LN (evil tendencies). The orcs in my world are barbaric tribes that exist at the outscirts of civilization. They don't think of themselves as evil, but they follow a pagan god of war and strength. Hence their culture places emphasis on glory in battle and showing your strength and bravery. They are really a lot like the Klingons in Star Trek, since they essentially live in a warrior culture.

 

[KDLadage]

I once posted a Story Hour about an Orcs-vs-Elves campaign I was in... let me see if it is still about...

...nope... lost in the server move, I guess...

Let me see if I still have a copy of that story about...

but the short of it is "SOMETIMES, ORCS ARE EVIL BECAUSE THE DOMINANT CULTURE DEFINES WHAT IS GOOD, AND WHAT IS EVIL.... AND NO CULTURE WILL EVER DEFINE ITSELF AS BEING THE EVIL SIDE OF THINGS..."

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Orcs are evil, because Tolkien potrayed them such in his books.

I don't recall see name 'orc' before Tolkien's books (Lord of the Rings and such).

Many monsters taken from literature/mythology end up having morality-package attached to them, based on how these creatures behaved in said book/mythology.

Tolkien's orcs acted evil, so they ended evil in 'd&d' and many computer games and rpg games, even those not attached to D&D.

There's the alignment comes from, anyway.


Not to say, that your D&D world orcs should be evil.

Hateful and destructive behavior however, is consider evil within d&d alignment. If orcs are nasty to their own family members too, steal and raid, like to kill, destroy things out of spite. These things combained would make them 'evil race' IMO.

Of course, this is very much bacause D&D alingment system is very black-white.

In my games, orcs are sort of evil. Not inherenly, but because their society's ways are grim and nasty, and because it happens to value power so highely above everyhting else.

But orc-child raised by humans would IMC be just as 'neutral' as humans are, perhaps tendercy to be a bit brutish, though.

 

[Errant]

IMC...

Orcs are (generally) evil because of their dominant religious & cultural influences.

Consider. You are born into a society where as a child, you are ignored (if you're lucky), neglected &/or abused nearly every day of your life.

The clerics of your tribe, (who Gruumsh grants powerful magic in return for promoting an attitude of racial aggression, etc). teach you that your race has been cheated of its birthright to rule the world (a common orcish dogma).

The only members of you see given any respect are those reputed to have the greatest battle honors. Those that have slaughtered the most (dangerous) opponents & claimed the most loot.

The daily abuse & neglect continue every day of your life, forcing you to live off scraps & whatever you can steal off those smaller than you until you are old enough & big enough to start thinking about making your first kill, to claim your first battle honors.

The leaders of your tribe brutally punish serious in-fighting because it weakens the tribe against rival tribes & outside threats. So you have to look elsewhere for your first kill.

Naturally, this is a common attitude among your peers, and since you can't claim a kill if there're no witnesses or proof (and there's safety in numbers), you band together to seek out prey. Once you think you have a strong enough band, you set out on your first raid into the lands of a rival tribe or one of those soft, civilized lands a few days or weeks march away... (these are the inexperience, relatively poorly equipped orcs detailed in the MM).

If you're lucky enough to survive, you return home with some loot & for the first time you get to eat more than cast off scraps at a tribal feast. The respect & recognition are a heady feeling. Soon you start thinking about how to gain more. Naturally, other adults feel the same way & sooner or later the leaders start talking about forming a war band to do some serious pillaging... (MM orcs only make up a minority of war band members, most are a little more experienced & better equipped, some are dramatically more experienced & better equipped).

Everything about your position in life revolves what you can take from others. Kindness & generosity, sharing, only leave you that much hungrier. Hesitating in battle, mercy & compassion, only let your enemies live long enough to try & stab you in the back later...

Thats why orcs are evil IMC.