D&D 5E Why are we still stuck with divine casters knowing all spells?

[Orius]

The main problem with wizard healing is that wizards already get enough magic that duplicated other class functions.

 

[timASW]

The main problem with wizard healing is that wizards already get enough magic that duplicated other class functions.

A problem that would be solved by eliminating the cleric/wizard divide altogether

 

[JasonZZ]

A problem that would be solved by eliminating the cleric/wizard divide altogether

Done correctly, this would also put down CoDzilla. Of course, the heavily armored fighting priest is probably too precious a sacred cow for some people....

 

[Li Shenron]

The main problem with wizard healing is that wizards already get enough magic that duplicated other class functions.

Yeah but at least, they have limitations on the number of spells known, which is the point of my thread

I think it's just fine to keep the "magic of life and death" exclusive to clerics and druids (with necromancy being only a mockery of life, it still fits arcane magic IMO) but obviously one Wizard Tradition granting healing spells is possible, since the DM can easily choose whether to allow it or not (for safety, it would be best not to have it in core tho, since players usually assume that everything core is available by default).

The "duplication" problem is strongly related to the amount of spells known (and secondarily also to the amount of spells prepared) but happens for clerics and druids as well.

 

[timASW]

Done correctly, this would also put down CoDzilla. Of course, the heavily armored fighting priest is probably too precious a sacred cow for some people....

Sadly your probably right. But maybe one of these editions we can see that crappy cow turned into some yummy magic user steaks.

 

[Orius]

A problem that would be solved by eliminating the cleric/wizard divide altogether

That would not be be a problem. If you're going to have the two classes seperate, then the cleric needs something to distinguish it from the wizard. Exclusive access to healing magic is one way. Another way would be to make the cleric a class which is a balanced hybrid between fighter and wizard.

 

[Cyberen]

A bit tangential to the subject, but...
What could be cool is a spell database in Next' DDI, where a DM could edit spell lists for the current PCs of her current campaign, by adding, subtracting, mix&matching, importing the Setting (FR, Dragonlance, Eberron, ...) settings, copying and pasting from friends from their kool social network supported by DDI...
It would solve some problems of what is core/allowed and not, simplify bookkeeping, etc. It would enable plenty of cool new ideas (and sacred cow sacrifices ;-) ), but of course, enabling, designing and balancing are quite different issues...
By the way, such a database would work miracles for a bestiary, enabling a DM to tailor the monster list and the individual abilities (and fluff !) of each monster entry in her homebrew setting (even the monster look, if enough art were to be incorporated in this uber db).

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

There has always been the option for Wizards to cast healing spells - at least I can remember rules as far back as 2E Skills and Powers (buy a clerical sphere for some character points). Given we're trying to be a little traditional with this edition, I don't think we'll see this as anything but an optional rule introduced way down the line (probably not even playtested, just discussed in the final DMG). Having said that, with Wizard traditions and Cleric archetypes, there's scope for crossover between the two - it's just a question of avoiding it being a no-brainer to have healing spells (or fireballs as a Cleric). They could do this more easily by changing how healing works but that won't happen..

It seems that along with healing, Clerics are generally expected to relieve poisons, disease, blindness, deafness, etc., which are also physical afflictions. Then there's mental effects such as fear, compulsions, some forms of paralysis. Finally we have nebulous/spiritual effects such as curses and energy drain. I think it's best to separate these components into proper healing (physical effects) and other forms of restoration (mental/spiritual effects), if only because I can imagine a deity of magic whose Clerics can remove curses, but aren't particularly into healing otherwise. I can imagine Warlocks in particular having access to the restoration sphere, but not to healing, and if we adopt dual spells (bestow curse is essentially the same as remove curse) then that fits even better.

 

[Ratskinner]

As it is right now, a wizard needs to look up all rulebooks once per level, when he gains new spells.

A cleric, druid, paladin or ranger needs to look up all rulebooks every day, when he prepares his spells. That is the true problem with divine casters automatically knowing all spells in a level.

Ah. My group's players rarely look up spell details when preparing spell lists, its only when casting that they are digging up ranges etc. Which is a thing that all the casters do. So, compared to Divine casters' tremendous flexibility, this is a non-problem for me hardly the "true problem". I've rarely actually witnessed this type of intense preparation at-table, although many others seem to see it regularly.

 

[Ratskinner]

That would be my preference as well but I've been told its a fools hope everytime I bring it up.

Ditto.

"Sacred" is my favorite flavor of steak, though.