Why are wizards always getting nerfed?

[S'mon]

This tends to work best if there's only one cleric around. If you have _two_ clerics in the group, then they can share the healing/buffing duties between them, and they both become much nastier than a single cleric would be.

With 2+ Clerics in the group they were _severely_ overpowered in 3.0. The 3.5 changes have alleviated this. However I went and gave them limited spell lists & spontaneous casting anyway, and now I'm a happy DM bunny.

 

[reapersaurus]

He can no longer expect to always do more damage than the fighter, or have more effective spells than the cleric. When he doesn't, he needs to improvise. When he does, he basks in the glory and rubs his companions' noses in it.

If that's your approach to gaming, than you can keep it.

 

[Crothian]

Cyr, duuude. Vague overgeneralizations ("he has 4 attacks and I can do only 17 pts.") aren't very useful. Please give some concrete examples.

Darkness, I think that is the problem., The fighter has 4 attacks, and the wizard only has a 5d6 fireball. I think I'd be upset, too if that happened to me.

 

[mmu1]

Darkness, I think that is the problem., The fighter has 4 attacks, and the wizard only has a 5d6 fireball. I think I'd be upset, too if that happened to me.

Oh, it's a 10d6 Fireball. But since everyone, and I mean everyone, always makes the reflex save, it only does 17 damage, you see.

 

[reapersaurus]

It's also only 17 damage to one target, apparently.
I like how the fighter somehow "automatically" does 80 damage, though.
TO ONE TARGET.
Not to mention that to get high damage as a melee fighter, he must be right up in the thick of battle, and will definately be risking his HP's from (quite possibly) higher-damage counterattacks from monsters and the like (Improved Grab/Constrict, anyone?)

The fireball's also at 1040 feet range, so the wizard can safely expend a pittance of his spells per day safely raining down death from above to toast MULTIPLE opponents - but that's not an issue here.

edit: Long range for a 16th level wizard distance isn't 640 feet....

 

[Crothian]

Oh, it's a 10d6 Fireball. But since everyone, and I mean everyone, always makes the reflex save, it only does 17 damage, you see.

Wow, everyone always makes it. Then you need to get the DM new dice!! I don't feel that a 16th level wizard (minimium level a fighter needs for 4 attacks with out outside aid) has a few options better then a fireball. Most creatures have a weak save, use a spell that uses that save against them. That strategy has made spellcasters the truelly feared characters they are.

 

[Bauglir]

AoE spells like fireball are both a blessing and a curse. As an upside they can hit multiple targets. As a downside said targets can include allies too, which limits their use..

 

[Darkness]

Darkness, I think that is the problem., The fighter has 4 attacks, and the wizard only has a 5d6 fireball. I think I'd be upset, too if that happened to me.

Oh, it's a 10d6 Fireball. But since everyone, and I mean everyone, always makes the reflex save, it only does 17 damage, you see.

Right, let's think about that... A fighter using a greatsword needs to be at least, let's see, 16th level to get 4 attacks per round. (Unless he has some rare and speshul shtuff, anyway.)

If the wizard's best spell is a 10d6 fireball he's, what, a 10th- (or higher-) level wizard with a 13 Int who's adventuring with a 16th-level fighter?

 

[DMScott]

Oh, it's a 10d6 Fireball. But since everyone, and I mean everyone, always makes the reflex save, it only does 17 damage, you see.

Well, if you're tossing third level spells at the sort of targets a 16th level or higher party fights (given that your fighter buddy has four attacks), you probably shouldn't expect them to all fall down and die. If you want to both cause more damage and make it harder for them to save, there are some pretty decent 7th and 8th level spells.

 

[mmu1]

Well, if you're tossing third level spells at the sort of targets a 16th level or higher party fights (given that your fighter buddy has four attacks), you probably shouldn't expect them to all fall down and die. If you want to both cause more damage and make it harder for them to save, there are some pretty decent 7th and 8th level spells.

Um... Dude, Cyraneth's the one talking about Fireballs doing 17 damage. I'm the guy being sarcastic. Try looking at my other posts.