why are wizards so weak?

[Zander]

Keep in mind that wizards gained in increased number of spells, item creation, metamagic, etc. Also, they typically have more hp (higher con bonuses available, con bonuses start at 12 instead of 15).

True, but if you compare 3.5E wizards to 1E magic users, the former have more drawbacks, sc. caps on spell damage, more monsters with relatively low HD that have magic res. and many fewer exclusively arcane spells.

 

[Philip]

Every PC still tries to kill enemy spellcasters (especially wizards) before they attack equal CR melee types or rogues. They know that ignoring an enemy wizard for just a few rounds can turn the tide of the battle, while ignoring a melee type can usually be done without ill effect.

In my own experience as a PC my wizard characters often were pivotal in combat, while the fighter and rogue like characters may have done more damage in total, they were more replacable.

It was a well-placed web spell that cut off half the opposition and allowed us defeat the superior enemy. It was a timely obscuring mist that saved the day against the Atach, it was the empowered ray of enfeeblement that weakened the Elder Earth Elemental sufficiently so that the fighters actually dared to go into melee with it without fear of certain death.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Wizards wreak freakin' havok when they're played correctly.

Unless we're talking about 1st level. Then you've got a handful of spells that are actually useful ... and Magic Missile ain't one of them.

Sleep, Charm Person, Grease ... these spells are crutch at very early levels. Sleep can take 4 orcs/goblins/kobolds out of a combat. Grease can mess with lower-level folks and even let the 1st level Rogue get some mileage out of his sneak attack.

Pure damage shouldn't be the wizard's forte ... that's for Sorcs, who can toss the same spell again and again. A wizard shouldn't take more than ONE Fireball a day ... it's not for ending hard fights, it's for clearing a room of mooks or seperating the wheat from the chaff in the big temple.

I just got done playing a wizard, and I took a handful of Magic Missiles and one Fireball a day for direct damage. That was it. The rest of my kit was built up with battlefield control magics, and they absolutely decimated the foe at every turn. The fireball was for clearing multiple low-level/high-threat enemies (ghouls, ghasts, etc). The Magic Missiles were for single high-threat enemies without SR, especially those with big AC bonuses. The rest ... Pyrotechnics, Glitterdust, Enlarge Person, etc. THOSE are the arcane powerhouses.

And wands ... buy a Wand of Disrupt Undead, which comes in quite handy at 2nd-3rd level. Go for all the frontloaded spells. True Strike, Enlarge Person, Sheild, Ray of Enfeeblement ... sit back and True Strike, then RoFeeb a melee guy from across the room. Open up with the barbarian kicking down the door and tossing in a torch, then 5' stepping out of LoS ... pop a Pyro (Fireworks) on it ... fail your save, go blind, let the rest of the party swarm in from the sides and mince everything in the room.

Better than fireball. More fun, too.

--fje

 

[BryonD]

I think your experiment has simply demonstrated that big spell books and the RAW metamagic system have little impact on "kill power".

They increase flexibility and utility, sure. But they don't increase kill power. You are assigning the result to the wrong variable.

 

[Drkfathr1]

The only thing I've done in 3.5 is increase the Wizards HD from d4 to d6. I just couldn't fathom why the Wizard should have so few hps, when creatures of the Fey type have at least a d6. It's seemed to make low level Wizards a bit better at surviving a single attack, and the potential for 2 more hps per level hasn't been terribly unbalancing.

I have tried to emphasize to my players the importance of Item Creation feats, especially Scribe Scroll. That can GREATLY increase the firepower of low-level wizards, but many tend to overlook the potential.

 

[Mercule]

It was a well-placed web spell that cut off half the opposition and allowed us defeat the superior enemy. It was a timely obscuring mist that saved the day against the Atach, it was the empowered ray of enfeeblement that weakened the Elder Earth Elemental sufficiently so that the fighters actually dared to go into melee with it without fear of certain death.

I think this is a critical observation: "well-placed", "timely", etc. A smart wizard is deadly and potent. A thick-skulled wizard is meat. The power of the wizard class is just fine. Some players are better at tapping it than others. Case in point: me. I suck at battle wizards. When I DM, the players know that caster-heavy BBEGs are going to be a bit easier than melee-focused enemies of comparable CRs. The same is true if I'm running a combat-caster PC.

Playing a fighter, rogue, or even a cleric (to an extent), you get to deal with immediate tactics. See a threat, figure it out, go take it down. With a wizard, especially, you have to be decent at strategy. Know your opponent ahead of time, learn how they fight, prepare, then engage. Sure, you can do that sort of thing with a fighter or, especially, a rogue, but it isn't really necessary to do so to be effective. Also, with a fighter, et al., a single error can be easily recovered from, usually. With a wizard, you rather lock yourself into a modus operandi every morning. Even if you're packing the right heat, there is often more extensive setup or change-over involved in changing gears.

That all is not to say the wizards are weak or disadvantaged. Rather, it really is just a matter of being smart and doing some homework. Wizards are not good "casual" characters.

 

[ForceUser]

Cleverly-played wizards are frighteningly effective. Hjorimir, who posts on these boards, plays wizard NPCs very well--I recall an encounter wherein a lich single-handedly picked apart our entire group of 7 PCs + 2 cohorts with a few well-placed spells. He killed two of the PCs and took their stuff, then he left. The party was 12th-13th level at the time, and the lich was an appropriate CR challenge.

Here's how it went: he opened the fight with Otiluke's resilient sphere on the juvenile gold dragon cohort, followed by a wall of force that divided the party. Then he dropped a wall of iron across a doorway that further separated the group, leaving the fighter and cleric on the side with him. Next, he trapped the fighter and cleric in a solid fog, and then finished them off with an empowered cone of cold. Once they dropped, he looted their bodies (!), and then left via dimension door before the rest of the group could manage to get through the wall of iron and the solid fog. Why did we give him so many rounds to work his magic, you ask? Let's just say that we spent most of that time attacking the bastard's programmed image.

Wizards, properly played, are straight evil.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Attacking almost any monster's hp is a waste of time, especially at mid-to-high levels and beyond. Every non-PC-classed, non-dragon, non-outsider opponent in the game can be eliminated faster if you never use a single offensive spell targeting its hp.

Wizards possess most of the best Save or Die spells, and Save or Die spells essentially determine who wins and who loses past 9th level.

They do the same at early levels, except that both sides quickly run out and both sides need someone on hand to deliver a Coup de Grace to actually effect the Die part.

 

[fafhrd]

While I wouldn't say that wizards are weak, IMO they are getting consistently weaker in a relative sense. It seems that with every new supplement, wizards get spells that overlap in terms of usefulness with preexisting spells, while new clerical and druid spells seem to consistently expand the competency of those two classes. Add to that the refit that wildshape and turning got via feats, and it gets harder for me to see where the wizard(and the sorc) are truly preeminent.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I have often thought of giving wizard's all meta-magic feats too, however, I have at least one player who doesn't just min/m,ax for himself, he helps other see ways to exploit the rules too. If he had all the meta-magic feats, he would take his normal character level feats in feats that would totally break the game. He has a list of crap he throws at me every week and when I nerf him down to a balanced level, he simply goes into his list of tatics to find another way to exploit the rules.

Bottom line, it is all in the player, not the class.