Why are you looking forward (or not looking forward) to Eberron?

[Numion]

You're right. I have a right to an opinion. However, you have not noticed me saying that your excitement for Eberron was wrong or sarcastically implying that you are a moron because you like what you have seen.

Maybe thats because I'm not that excited about it? I'm just going to give it a chance.

If you like it, then fine. I am hapy you have a shiny new campaign world.

Thanks .. but I really won't know until I've seen it :\

Flaming someone because they do not hold the same opinion as you is just not cool.

Neither is being a drama-queen

 

[Hand of Evil]

Okay, one and all lets keep things nice and pleasent.

 

[Henry]

I said that I have not seen anything that gives Eberron a special claim to games with inter-nation strife, multi-dimensional organizations and "intrigue, mystery and back-stabbing".

And I'll 100% agree - there's plenty of those elements in FR and Greyhawk (Heck, Wolfram and Hart from the TV Show Angel could fit very well within both of those places!)

The thing that makes Eberron stand out to me is that a more (for lack of a better term) "modern sensibility" is built into it that would make certain plots stick out like a sore thumb in a more medieval/renaissance fantasy world. In GH, unless you are high level, a long journey is the adventure itself; in some cases, it can complicate the plot unless you build in some way (teleport circles) to not make it so. If high level, things like place shift and teleportation create their own problems, giving PC's access to more than just convenient travel.

By the same token, GH and FR, while cosmopolitan, tend to blend different nations, cultures, etc. into one another - in the end, unless the DM does a LOT of work, Cormyr feels a lot like Sembia, and the Dalelands feel a lot like the silver marches, Zhentil Keep feels just like Westgate, etc. Despite different rulers, different sites, and different agendas, they're good, evil, rustic, erudite, etc. - whatever the prevailing feel is. From what I've seen, some of the cultural differences in Eberron will feel more like the differences between the star-nations of the Battletech universe.

In the end, it sounds like you've got certain elements of this in place, and they work for you - but Eberron being built with these elements in place is a tremendous boon for those who have either not tried such a campaign, or who can't get their own campaigns to the point they want them, and want a good example of how to do so. In this case, Eberron may not be what you are looking for, but I would suggest that when the setting comes out, keeping tuned to the discussions of it, and see if any of the material sparks your curiosity; it could be that there are elements you may wnat to adapt, but we all won't know 'till it breaks. Besides, it's not like they'll run out of copies, even if it's successful.

 

[Henry]

Gentlemen, listen to the Hand of Evil. (That just sounds cool when I say it.)

No one needs to be insulting, here. Let's remember that as we continue to talk about a GAME, that some people won't like and won't be buying as a matter of preference.

 

[BryonD]

And I'll 100% agree - there's plenty of those elements in FR and Greyhawk (Heck, Wolfram and Hart from the TV Show Angel could fit very well within both of those places!)

The thing that makes Eberron stand out to me is that a more (for lack of a better term) "modern sensibility" is built into it that would make certain plots stick out like a sore thumb in a more medieval/renaissance fantasy world. )

SNIP

Now that is dead on.

 

[WizarDru]

FWIW, i wouldn't claim Midnight is "fresh" either -- evil conquers the world... how many times have we seen that before?

Let me think....um, I don't think ever, personally.

Honestly, I can't recall a campaign setting where the bad guys aren't going to win, but actually won already. More importantly, the players can't unseat Izrador and set things to right...all they can do is keep hope alive, and fight the good fight. Their mission isn't even to defeat Izrador's minions, but to simply survive and try to inspire others to hold on. For the most part, your best hope is to be a herald or precursor to the actual heroes who might one day find a way to contact the good deities or stop Izrador somehow.

Eberron may or may not be "new" and "fresh"...but Midnight certainly is considerably different than what's been detailed before, IMHO.

See..I have not been comparing it to other game worlds for a reason. I am not a fan of FR or greyhawk either. It seems that WOTC kept the most bland worlds possible.

Well, I've never heard of FR being referred to as bland, but I'm no real fan of the setting, so I couldn't say. As for Greyhawk, however, it's only as bland as you want it to be. Where FR is hyper-detailed, Greyhawk was always envisioned as a highly-individualized setting. It's 'bland' because it was designed, by EGG from day one, to be a setting that each DM would make his own. My campaign in Greyhawk (detailed in the Story Hour in my .Sig) is certainly nothing like EGG's Greyhawk, or anyone else's for that matter. I agree with Henry, though, that many of the nations of both GR and FR feel awfully alike...they're just political differences without much individual flavor, except in broad strokes that border on the 2-dimensional and comic, at times.

Luckily, there are settings available and coming that are much better at this sort of thing. It would be nice if Eberron is one of them, of course, but I'm content to wait and see.

 

[jasper]

What tsadkiel is saying is about this.
We both use the same modules G1-3, S3 barrier peaks, Sx (tomb of horrors), City state of invicible over lord, and Eberron modules 1 -3 California sunny days La to San Fran merchant train express. Eberron has it own map.
Tsadkiel is using earth as map I am making my own world using earth as a baseline.
Tsad places the giants modules in Washington state rocky mountains with St Helens being an active volcano. Tomb of horrors is a few miles from Denver Colorado, Barrier peaks are smoky mountains of Tennessee, the City State becomes part of Africa, and he keeps the coast line and most of module but changes the alignment of the cities California Sunny Days.
Where I look at the same modules, place the giants in the mountains of Virginia, barrier peaks terrain gets change to fit in death valley, tomb of horrors gets place in D.C., I like the judges city state module and just drop South America and replace with judges guild modules as they come out. The L.A. to San Fran merchant express gets placed on the ivory coast.

Now more material comes out and Eb4 Dirty Harry hobbit and Monterey Jack and maps out Carmel Cal.(Dirty harry mayor) and Monterey Cal.(jack mayor) and includes basic map of Fort Ord ( Fort Ord orcs! Orcs! Orcs will be Eb5)

If we both start our gamers in Eb1-3 and by the time Eb4 comes out and we both move the location out side the Eberron location. Some players are going be upset because their map(which came free with the purchase of EPHB) of Eberron is no help. And more detail, canon, and official material which comes out causes more and more trouble.

Numion… it's our god-given right to judge things beforehand, I know, but claiming to judge the whole product instead of the previews is BS..
Wrong Numion when all we have is previews and those previews don’t make it interesting then we must judge the campaign on what we know. Just like the previews for the movies if the commercials are not interesting then we judge the whole movie not to be interesting. Which is why I find it humorous that some products (especially movies) change their ads during the course of time before and after release. Good example its Stealing lives movie ads which have change just this last week. Less of the serial killer to more a someone going after ms. Tomb raider.

 

[Arnwyn]

Let me think....um, I don't think ever, personally.

Really? Is this serious, or are you just being facetious?

I have, and I'll give a hint, too: it starts with "R" and ends with "avenloft".

(Sorry for the hijack.)

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Really? Is this serious, or are you just being facetious?

I have, and I'll give a hint, too: it starts with "R" and ends with "avenloft".

(Sorry for the hijack.)

Midnight and Ravenloft are two very different settings, so much so that I don't think your argument, at least with Ravenloft as an example, holds up.

The evil in Ravenloft didn't win. There was never a war. Ravenloft's evil is more passive. The average Joe in Ravenloft lives his life pretty much without interference from the Dark Powers. There is an underlying current of "something wrong", but it normally isn't very obvious.

Not true with Midnight. Evil did win, and now it is collecting the spoils of war. The effects of it are very evident and effect the lives of everyone on a daily basis.

 

[~Johnny~]

so far, i haven't seen any element of Eberron that i haven't seen before somewhere else.

That's kind of how D&D works, isn't it? D&D didn't become the biggest name in roleplaying because it gave players the chance to play aasimar psions fighting beholders and rust monsters. It started by providing a world where you could fight orcs and trolls with elves and dwarves... then added the unique D&D-specific bits of flavor. A lot of things I like about Eberron -- like warforged or the wax-and-wane planar cosmology that was just revealed -- are not new. They're things I've thought of or read about or seen in movies before. It's just that these pieces are being woven together as a roleplaying game now. Just as Gygax and company pulled in elements from different types of mythology and various fantasy authors, Eberron gives us pieces we've seen in videogames and comic books and more recent fantasy novels, molded together and shaped into something cohesive. Being fresh and being new are not the same thing...

Honestly, I can't recall a campaign setting where the bad guys aren't going to win, but actually won already.

It depends on how you argue it. In Dark Sun the Sorceror-Kings had already dominated the world. In Rebellion-era Star Wars campaigns, the Empire has already won. It's not a new concept, but it's a good idea, and there's tons of room left to explore: to take it further and describe a world where evil isn't just status quo, but something that really makes everyone's lives crappy.

If anything, the best RPGs aren't ones that create a whole new type of fantasy. They're the ones that take something established and flesh them out as three-dimensional worlds. Take Midnight as an example. The high concept "evil has won" has been done before, but Midnight's doing it in a new way. As I've said before, it's my expectation that Eberron will also fit into this category.