Why are you looking forward (or not looking forward) to Eberron?

[Arnwyn]

Midnight and Ravenloft are two very different settings, so much so that I don't think your argument, at least with Ravenloft as an example, holds up.

And I will respectfully disagree. I think it certainly does hold up, and then some.

The evil in Ravenloft didn't win. There was never a war.

I think some might beg to differ. Evil is quite dominant in Ravenloft. Pedantry aside, the history of "how" is irrelevant.

Ravenloft's evil is more passive. The average Joe in Ravenloft lives his life pretty much without interference from the Dark Powers. There is an underlying current of "something wrong", but it normally isn't very obvious.

Not true with Midnight. Evil did win, and now it is collecting the spoils of war. The effects of it are very evident and effect the lives of everyone on a daily basis.

I think those living under certain Dark Lords will notice that it's "very evident".

In any case, I'll quote the reference that resulted in my post, in case you missed it:

More importantly, the players can't unseat Izrador and set things to right...all they can do is keep hope alive, and fight the good fight. Their mission isn't even to defeat Izrador's minions, but to simply survive and try to inspire others to hold on. For the most part, your best hope is to be a herald or precursor to the actual heroes who might one day find a way to contact the good deities or stop Izrador somehow.

Change "Izrador" to "the Dark Powers" (or, if you want to go to a lower level, chose an appropriate Dark Lord), and you've got Ravenloft. (Whether certain people want to admit it or not.)

There's obviously differences between the campaign settings (duh), but to suggest that Midnight is something that has never been seen by anyone before and totally new and fresh is a bit much. (It ain't new and fresh to me, at least - and apparently, judging by other posts, to others as well. Disclaimer: Not saying something entirely "new and fresh" is absolutely essential for a campaign world, of course. Far from it. Midnight is a pretty darn slick setting that was done quite well.)

My final point is really that a new setting that isn't entirely "new and fresh" isn't necessarily a knock against it. Sure, some people might be looking for something that is quite new - and for them, individually, Eberron may not (or may - who knows?) be for them. But generally, something can have familiar aspects and still be pretty darn good. (Okay, that wasn't particularly deep nor insightful. )

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I want argue that Midnight was 100% original. That'd be silly. Most of it was borrowed directly from Tolkien.

I think those living under certain Dark Lords will notice that it's "very evident".

Now I haven't read much Ravenloft in the last few years, but from what I remember, in most domains, the average person didn't even know there was a Darklord, much less who he was.

Sure, you have some areas where the Darklord is a prominant ruler, but those areas usually don't have settlements. The people just up and leave since they have that option as long as the Darklord doesn't close the borders.

Take a look at Barovia. Strahd is its master, both secretly and public. However, despite this, the average Barovian isn't too bad off. He farms and does his own thing, but makes sure the shutters are barred shut when he goes to sleep.

In Midnight, every aspect of your life is impacted by the war that goes on around you and the evil armies that control the government and economy. You have no rights and no freedoms, unless you are willing to fight.

In Ravenloft, evil never conquored good. It was always in control. However, in most places in Ravenloft, the evil is passive. Sure, the PCs will get tangled up in it, but Farmer Bob will probably just continue worrying about his crops.

Besides that, according to Ravenloft's backstory, a few Darklords HAVE been defeated and there are supposedly ways to escape Ravenloft. No such luck in Midnight.

In Midnight, the forces of good fell to evil. Izrador is a name known by pretty much everybody and his armies cover the continant spreading destruction and death.

I'm not saying that Midnight is any "darker" than Ravenloft, but they are certainly different. We both sem to agree on that though, so I'm not entirelly sure what we are debating anymore. Let's just say, I see your point.

My point was really that the campaigns were different because the forces of good had to loose for evil to win. That isn't the case in Ravenloft because good never had a chance to fight back. In my opinion, that, and the way evil interacts with the world, makes a huge difference and makes the setting hard to compare to each other.


So anyway. Eberron looks cool.

 

[WizarDru]

And I will respectfully disagree. I think it certainly does hold up, and then some.

I didn't say it was new and fresh, I specifically answered, that I'd never seen it before...and I haven't. I've never owned Ravenloft, though I had the original module at one point.

My knowledge of Ravenloft is this: "vampires and horror story monsters in a dark world, where the PCs hunt the monsters down". Is that accurate? I don't know. But that's the impression I have of the setting. I'd heard of some Dark Powers...but it was pretty clear that relatively normal adventuring takes place, and that while the world is a very dark place, people still live their day to day lives there. I could be completely wrong, but I didn't get the same impression from Ravenloft as a setting.

Midnight was presented to me (before I purchased it) as "what Middle-Earth might be like if Sauron won." There is only one evil, there's only ROOM for one evil. Everyone serves Izrador, and Izrador is both omnipotent and unassailable, as are his minions for the most part. That is the core idea of the setting, and I didn't get that from Ravenloft. My impression of Ravenloft is that it's an unpleasant setting, but the Dark Powers aren't slowly destroying everything and everyone's against the heroes...which is what I did get from Midnight.

Dark Sun, another setting I only have passing familiarity with, was also a dark world, dying in this case, with powerful evil beings and so forth. But I didn't get an idea of evil having won and conquered, there, but that good and evil both were losing a battle to stay alive, and everything was just about survival in a nasty, horrible place. As far as I know, Dark Sun was "Players try to survive a harsh environment in a desert world with dark overtones." I know there were some Dragon Kings or something, and that arcane spellcasters destroyed living plants and fertile ground when they cast spells...but that was about it.

 

[Ssyleia]

I am looking forward to Eberron because it is a new WotC Campaign Setting. Actually, this makes 2 WotC Campaign setting in print right now.

How come?
1. Forgotten Realms is In-Print
2. There hasn't been any Greyhawk supplement since 2000
3. There hasn't been any Dark Sun supplements since 1996
4. There hasn't been any Spelljammer supplements since 1994
5. There hasn't been any Mystara supplements since 1995
6. There hasn't been any Birthright supplements since 1995
7. There hasn't been any Al-Qadim supplements since 1996
8. There hasn't been any Kara-Tur supplements since 1994
9. There hasn't been any Maztica supplements since 1994
10. Ravenloft is no longer WotC
11. Dragonlance is no longer WotC

Two campaign settings makes twice as much high-quality game product to choose from. It's that simple...

Also, Eberron has been chosen from 10,000 entries. It can't be all bad?

 

[~Johnny~]

Hi!

Just a quick link from your friendly neighborhood Eberron fanboy:

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/lore.html

 

[Plane Sailing]

Nice pictures. Are they original or modified from other sources?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Numion… it's our god-given right to judge things beforehand, I know, but claiming to judge the whole product instead of the previews is BS..
Wrong Numion when all we have is previews and those previews don’t make it interesting then we must judge the campaign on what we know.

A "right" to judge things beforehand? We "must" judge the campaign on what we know?

Why not wait and judge it on the actuality? There isn't any hurry is there? I'd agree that there is an "opportunity" to start to form a judgment about something based on previews, but going further to that seems... an unusual decision.

Regards

 

[~Johnny~]

Nice pictures. Are they original or modified from other sources?

Thanks! I wish I could draw that photorealistically, but no. The images are all Photoshopped, even the warforged. But hey, photo-manipulation is still kind of an art, right?

 

[fuindordm]

Hi!

Just a quick link from your friendly neighborhood Eberron fanboy:

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/lore.html

That's some pretty cool material!

I love Syntax and the all-seeing eye.

--Ben

 

[Mac Callum]

Hi!

Just a quick link from your friendly neighborhood Eberron fanboy:

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/lore.html

Dude, this rocks! Thanks. The collection of available material was exactly what I was looking for. I'll be stopping by in the future.

Mac Callum