Why aren't RPGs poplular

[maddman75]

None of us -- not even the guy who has attended GenCon multiple times -- are "hard core" in the sense you mean, of being Crunch Focused and wanting lots of new rules for new builds all the time. We're definitely more story oriented.

Yes they are, by my meaning. They buy books, they buy miniatures, they post on forums. A majority of my players do these things seldom, if at all.

My main game no one has any books for it except me.

Even without attempting a frequent game, getting the guys together once every few months is tough. We all have jobs, most of us have kids, someone is always moving or on a business trip, whatever.

Much easier when we were all in high school or college, or on summer break!

The best approach I've found is spisodic play and a quorum. Each game ends with the PCs returning to home base, making for simple explaination if someone can't make it. If X number of people show up on game day, its on. Makes cancellations easier to deal with. If you only game when everyone can make it, you'll play like 3 times a year.

 

[Jack7]

I think if RPGs had more violence, reading, math, a little bit more violence than the first time I mentioned that, imagination, and people with weird personalities it would probably prosper more.

But sometimes it takes itself awfully seriously to be filled with so much violence, reading, math, imagination, and weird personality types. Plus sometimes I don't think the pictures of Elven females have enough in the way chain-mail armored hotpants to appeal to the average Joe. That's just a word to the wise for my art buddies.

A bit more seriously though, I think that if you're gonna be slaughtering monsters then maybe the bloody images in video games might have something on hit points.

I mean you kill something in a video game or a film or TV show and all you really get is blood and entrails. But you kill a monster in an RPG and gory statistical number sets and complex differential calculations squirt everywhere. (I once nearly had my eye put out when a THACO round went off accidentally. I guess I deserved it though, like an idiot I lost a base modified initiative throw by miscalculating all possible positive number sequences as applied to racial traits. Go figgur.) But anyway, I guess the whole thing just might be too visceral and graphic for some people. Do we really wanna sully our children's mind with vicious pre-algebraic formulations of paper peryton, graphite griffons, ink-stained imps, and cardboard catoblepas? I'll leave it up to you of course, but some people might have standards.

I was thinking more the extreme nerdy fatbeard in his parents' basement image which, rightly or wrongly, got firmly attached to it.

The term fatbeard made me laugh. That's what my buddies and I used to call people in the Beta Club. I'm still not sure what it means though.

 

[cattoy]

I disagree (partly). Reading and Math on their own are not the problem. Poker has surged in popularity over the past decade. Lots of the poker players I know, myself included, have spent countless hours reading Super Systems, Card Player magazine, etc. Part of success in poker is understanding the math (statistics) behind the game.

Fantasy Football (or, as a good friend of mine put it - D&D for jocks) is another very popular activity that spawns countless magazines devoted to player statistics. I spend a good hour each day on ESPN's website reading about football, analyzing how I suspect each of my players will fare in their upcoming games. Basically reading and analyzing statistics. Most of the guys/girls I play with do as well.

I think you are underestimating the amount of reading and math people do "for fun".

I do think you are absolutely right on the perception issue. Sadly, when I mention D&D to many of my friends the image is the overweight bearded guy living in his mother's basement.

And do you know what else Fantasy Football and Poker have in common?

They are both competitive pastimes. Every hand, every week, you either win or lose and you have a definitive measurement of how well or how poorly you did. You either gain or lose chips, you pick up or lose position within your fantasy football league.

RPGs do not generally have a purely competitive basis, most of them being collaborative in nature. Many do not have clearly defined metrics for winning or losing and often lack any sort of mechanism for defining an endgame entirely.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And, depending on which league you're in or what table you sit at, Fantasy Football and Poker also have $$$$ winnings at stake.

 

[ScottS]

The third isn't a problem - people don't mind being creative and imaginative. What they do mind, or fear, is judgement of their creative contributions.

Which is what the hobby is about.

Was there some sort of "negative value judgment" in this part (i.e. do you think that RPGers are overly ready to crap on each other's ideas), or are you just saying that people don't really like collaborating?

 

[LostSoul]

Was there some sort of "negative value judgment" in this part (i.e. do you think that RPGers are overly ready to crap on each other's ideas), or are you just saying that people don't really like collaborating?

Not at all.

Judgement isn't a bad thing. Without judgement, you can't say, "That was awesome!"

So when you're playing, the other players are all looking towards you to contribute something to the game. (The lion's share of this lies on the DM.) Do you do something the group likes? Or not?

Since it's all imagined stuff, it's all creative.

People judge that stuff, and that can be difficult. It's scary to put forth your own ideas.

 

[Shades of Green]

I guess that it has to do with the learning curve, especially for the DM/GM. Most boardgames require a few minutes of reading the first time you ever pull them out of their box, and then you are ready to start actually playing. Some boardgames such as Talisman work on a "need to know" basis, with the majority of the specific rules clearly stated on their relevant cards/squares and thus appearing only once you encounter them (and then they are very simple and easy to understand in most cases); all you need to learn in advance are the basic rules which are quite simple.

Most P&P RPGs - D&D included - have quite involved rules that you have to know in order to play. Each player has to read, for the very least, the whole character creation, skills, feats and combat sections of the PHB (players playing spellcasters have to read even more) at least cursorily, and understand it at least to some degree BEFORE THE VERY FIRST GAME. The DM/GM has to be at least superficially familiar with the contents of THREE WHOLE BOOKS (in D&D; in some other games it's one whole book) in order to prep for the game. And that's not including the setting that the DM/GM usually has to invent and/or read about from YET ANOTHER BOOK.

And all of this comes before you start playing.

And then there's prep - most RPGs aren't playable straight out of the box.

In other words, you can't just crack the books open once you buy them and try out the game in some free evening you got with your friends. You need to read a lot and the DM/GM has to do some prep. All of these take time and effort. Most boardgames, on the other hand, are playable straight out of the box.

Of course, actually playing an RPG once you learn it and prep for it is an extremely rewarding experience, but you have to get there in the first place.

 

[Kzach]

One thing that just got brought up recently for me was the stigma of cultism and D&D.

An online friend with whom I'd conversed for over ten years recently said something to me that led to a falling out between us. I mentioned I'd been spending a lot of time playing D&D lately and she blurted out that she was worried for my mental health.

Given we had been online friends for so long, this came as a real shock to me. We had spent hours conversing about personal details, numerous times, and this had never come up. But apparently she thought D&D people were all part of some bizarre cult, and that only mentally disturbed people played it.

Try as I might, I couldn't convince her that it was a sane hobby that regular people played. I tried to explain to her that it was a hobby I loved and I was deeply offended by her comments, but after a ten year friendship, she felt that D&D was an evil cult and that I'd been brainwashed.

Now, it may seem like she had a severe reaction but looking back, I've experienced a lot of these kinds of reactions from people. People linking D&D to suicides and cult killings. Whenever some kid in America blows his classmates away they always seem to manage to find some link to D&D. Not because it's true or has anything to do with psychosis, but because it's just a standard beat-up angle for journalists to latch onto.

Up until this discussion with her, she had seemed pretty normal and decent. I'd say her attitude is more prevalent than mine.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

<snip>
Try as I might, I couldn't convince her that it was a sane hobby that regular people played. I tried to explain to her that it was a hobby I loved and I was deeply offended by her comments, but after a ten year friendship, she felt that D&D was an evil cult and that I'd been brainwashed.<snip>

I've run into this myself- first with my Mom (who may or may not have gotten over it)- then a relative and one of my art teachers.

At one point, it seemed as if I couldn't go a year without SOMEBODY accusing me of being a satanist or in mortal danger of losing my soul due to D&D (and/or Metal).

This despite I'm a lifetime practicing Catholic who has been playing D&D only 10 years less than my involvement in my faith.

Result: I'm not embarrassed by this hobby, but I don't let everyone I know know I'm a gamer.

I understand its different outside the USA, but since I'm probably through with living abroad, I have to resign myself to this.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

RPGs are immensely popular. They are an incredibly cheap hobby compared to other. The personal buy-in, of course is big: you have to be interested in rolling dice, talking to people, telling stories, thinking about characters, counting and managing numbers and being creative in your sparetime all at once.

For a hobby that demands so much, we are really big. Remember the lawsuit? 20 million have played, perhaps 6 million are playing right now. For a hobby like that, that´s pretty awesome.

The 80s were just a blip: one in a million, will never happen again. The golden age of RPGs is right now.