Why aren't RPGs poplular

[Guest 85555]

Add to that the convenience of on-demand play and the ability to play for only a few minutes at a time if you want and the attraction to the busy/attention defecit consumer is obvious.

I think this is important too. A table top rpg requires other players, and if you don't know anyone who plays, even if you bought all the books for a game, it may be hard to start a campaign. When I first realy got into gaming, this was the hardest part. I had a group in California was attended elementary school. But I moved accross the country in 7th grade, and it took about a year and half to find other players who could play consistently. With WOW, the players are all online. And you don't even truly need them, because the computer can still present you with challenges.

 

[Desdichado]

Again though, your point about not needing to master the rules is totally true, but people may not be getting that impression when they are first introduced to gaming.

I think that's heavily personality dependent, though. I mean, I strongly agree with Mallus, and I play that same way and only like games that are run under those principles. But that's because what I enjoy out of the game is different than what some other, more gamist personalities enjoy. For a lot of people, rules mastery is important to their enjoyment of the game, and they literally don't enjoy it otherwise. My wife, bless her soul, is like this. She likes games that are simple enough that she can feel like she's mastered the rules before she plays, because she hates playing a game feeling like she's not making the best possible choices out there because she doesn't understand her options. I've tried to explain to her that she can focus more on the roleplaying and less on the game and it'll work better; "just do what makes sense in character, don't worry so much about whether or not it's the 'best' thing to do." She gets it; she just couldn't enjoy a game like that.

Needless to say, I've failed spectacularly in getting her into the hobby, because the hobby is geared towards either people who don't care as much about the rules and just enjoy the experience, or people who are "gearheads" so to speak, who really enjoy rules mastery, and are willing to invest massive amounts of time to acquire it.

 

[Guest 85555]

Needless to say, I've failed spectacularly in getting her into the hobby, because the hobby is geared towards either people who don't care as much about the rules and just enjoy the experience, or people who are "gearheads" so to speak, who really enjoy rules mastery, and are willing to invest massive amounts of time to acquire it.

I share your pain. It does often boil down to personality.

 

[avin]

Coming late to this topic, having read it, I bet it's because of the books.

Most kids just run away from any books they see.

 

[delericho]

Classic D&D was very much its own game and every bit as "real" as AD&D. It was a simpler game but that very simplicity is what made a starter set that retained its value possible.

Aye, 'tis true. I didn't mean to disparage BECM D&D - I remember it very fondly, and in hindsight it's obvious that many of the supposed improvements in AD&D were nothing of the sort.

What I was trying to get at was that I think TSR made a key mistake in supporting two parallel versions of D&D. Hmm, maybe I should have just said that?

Wow is complex. So are the various Pokemon franchises (CCG's, console RPG's). Both are quite popular, the latter among young children, even (err, and some adults who shall remain nameless...).

Why doesn't complexity limit their popularity?

How much of that complexity is required before getting started playing?

I don't think complexity, in and of itself, is the problem. I think the major problem is the amount of time, money and effort required before starting play. Get people playing as quickly as possible, and I believe the game will sell itself. Require them to spend an hour juggling fiddly details to build a character, and they'll do something else instead.

 

[Mallus]

Most kids just run away from any books they see.

Statements like this in the age of bestselling young adult book series like Twilight and Harry Potter seem, well, a little silly.

I just read an article online somewhere (io9?) about how young adult fiction is the hottest part of the SF market right now. One of the my favorite new-ish SF authors, Scott Westerfeld, writes YA exclusively now, because that's where the money is.

 

[ExploderWizard]

How much of that complexity is required before getting started playing?

I don't think complexity, in and of itself, is the problem. I think the major problem is the amount of time, money and effort required before starting play.

That is the key. WOW pre-play time includes install/account creation, choosing a faction, race, class and appearance-done.

There are no decisions to make at all strategy wise until level 10 when you choose where to put your first talent point. Your abilities are dictated/taught by your trainer and you can start exploring/questing almost on autopilot.

I have fun with my toons but playing doesn't provide the same satisfaction for me as a PnP RPG. It does provide that instant gratification gaming for solo play though.

 

[billd91]

GenCon has introduced us to the phenomenon of "The Running of the Fatbeards" too, where a whole bunch of stinky, sweaty middle-aged men kinda shuffle in a somewhat hurried fashion towards the booth that has the hot release of the year. I don't think 99+% of the population would do that, either.

Perhaps not shuffle along as wheezy fatbeards, but every new toy craze from the Cabbage Patch Kids to Tickle Me Elmo, the Wii, and PT Cruisers tells me that the proportion of the population that would do that is far greater than <1%.

 

[Oni]

Wow is complex. So are the various Pokemon franchises (CCG's, console RPG's). Both are quite popular, the latter among young children, even (err, and some adults who shall remain nameless...).

Why doesn't complexity limit their popularity?

I'll speak to WoW mostly since I have the most experience with that, though I feel what I'll say will apply to the other things you've mentioned at one level or another.

WoW's complexity is really dependent on the user's desire to delve into that complexity. A person may not be great at the game, but they can function even at higher levels of play with only a very basic understanding of how to play and roughly the intellect of a fence post.

Really the same goes for most computer/console rpg's I've played, and even a game like M:TG can be played on a very simple level relative to how complicated the game can be. I can't speak to Pokemon though, but maybe it's because they're so darn cute.

Anyway I suggest that these are in no way popular because of their complexity, and that the reason that their complexity does not limit their popularity all comes back to a single reason.

They are simple to learn to start with.

Complexity only comes in in terms of extending the lifespan for those who want more than the starting simplicity.

 

[avin]

Statements like this in the age of bestselling young adult book series like Twilight and Harry Potter seem, well, a little silly.

I don't know. I've always been a book/comics rat, but as I look around when was a kid, I was the exception.

Not to mention that this change from country to country.

I just read an article online somewhere (io9?) about how young adult fiction is the hottest part of the SF market right now. One of the my favorite new-ish SF authors, Scott Westerfeld, writes YA exclusively now, because that's where the money is.

Maybe things have changed, hope so.