Why aren't these spells rituals?

[billd91]

Anyway, here's a quick list of spells that might have the ritual tag applied to them. Yes? No? If not, why not?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]DisguiseSelf, Alter Self, Continual Flame, Rope Trick, Nondetection, RemoveCurse, Sending, Tongues, Fabricate, Mord's Faithful Hound, Mord'sTiny Sanctum, Legend Lore, Teleportation Circle, Mord's MagnificentMansion, Sequester, Mind Blank, Gate[/FONT]

Mostly because some things shouldn't be functionally unlimited within an adventuring context - certainly not within the vision of the game's designers. Making them unlimited would take a significant chunk of the challenge out of the resource management that spell casters face. You're certainly free to house rule whatever you want, but you might start to find that those changes will affect how your players deal with certain challenges. That may be fine for you and your group, but it wasn't for the designers. And that's perfectly fair.

 

[SkidAce]

I think we should;

A) develop a list of spells that should be rituals (perhaps like summoning spells or scrying stuff)

B) then based on the level of the spell and its effect or value of use, determine material components that would be required(consumed).


I.e. "Well if you have blood of XXX and Xgp of emeralds, you can summon an elemental demon alligator, if you know the ritual.

 

[SkidAce]

Possibly basing gp cost of materials or rarity by looking at other spells of same level that are not rituals, but limited by consumption of materials.

 

[Yunru]

Oh! Another one with devastating impact: Create Food and Water. I'll definitely take that as a ritual, yupyupyup.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Sure, I'll take that for Wall of Stone and go into construction. At 20 minutes per 1000 square feet, I could get a decent-sized town knocked up in a week or so.

Depending on the size of the town, it might even take you two!

But, honestly, if a caster wanted to spend all that time doing the same ritual over and over, what would it really hurt?

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Oh! Another one with devastating impact: Create Food and Water. I'll definitely take that as a ritual, yupyupyup.

And how, pray tell, would that be that have "devastating impact"?

 

[Yunru]

And how, pray tell, would that be that have "devastating impact"?

Well for one, you world won't have farmers, or farms. Except for the really wealthy, that is. Anyone who isn't a noble will just get their food from Create Food and Water.

 

[Ganders]

Just my opinions here:

For the housing, I'd say it's to keep you from casting them too many times, since they aren't concentration spells. One magnificent mansion is already pretty good, even at the cost of a big spell slot. But a row of ten or more mansions, to house a whole army, is a bit ridiculous. And on top of that you could still cast Forcecage on the same day? Yeah... too much. Same for the sanctums. Tiny Hut only squeeked by because it disappears as soon as the caster exits, thus preventing multiples. But it's still on the edge of overpowered as a ritual. I suspect this also applies to Mord's Hound and any other summon spells without concentration.

The answer for Rope Trick could be similar, but I think it's actually to keep it away from tomelocks, as it makes short rests too easy. This might also be the reason for a number of other spells that tomelocks shouldn't get, such as Continual Light, Fabricate, Teleportation Circle, Mind Blank, Nondetection.

For Gate, it's to make sure it can't be used more than once a day. For Mind Blank and Nondetection, to make sure you can't just cast it on the entire party; if they wanted it to work that way they'd have allowed multiple targets. Come to think of it, there seem to be quite a few spells at 8th level not because they're more powerful than level 6-7 spells, but just to keep them from being cast more than once per day. It's even possible that's a factor in why warlocks were designed to never ever get any of their high level casts back on a short rest, and why Arcane Recovery doesn't work on high level slots.

For Sending, it's to prevent international or even interplanar telegram services. Similarly for Continual Flame, it's to prevent sweat shop factories (or monasteries) churning these out too fast (that's already an issue even without being a ritual). Same for Fabricate.

For Disguise Self and Alter Self it may be simply to keep them from being too good. If every wizard always wants that spell, and every wizard guide suggests you get that first, then it's too good. There are still a few cases of this, such as Find Familiar, but they at least try to avoid it when possible. If you want to encourage more use of disguises, they could be rituals.

For Teleportation Circle, it might be to make sure there's a real cost for making a permanent one by casting it every day for a year. But that does seem like a rather lame reason. I'd allow it to be a ritual if I didn't mind tomelocks getting it.

Legend Lore might be so that it's not too easy, so you won't use it too casually. But again, pretty lame; this is so similar to Identify it's hard to justify treating it differently. I'd allow it to be a ritual. Same with Tongues; no reason not to treat it the same as Comprehend Languages.

For Remove Curse and Sequester I see no reason not to make them rituals. They're in the classic mold of utility spells that you wouldn't otherwise keep prepared very often.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Well for one, you world won't have farmers, or farms. Except for the really wealthy, that is. Anyone who isn't a noble will just get their food from Create Food and Water.

Really? That is kind of a narrow-minded point of view IMO. You must be assuming some things:

1. the world is populated by enough 5th-level and higher casters with access to the spell that either
a. have nothing more that they want to do to honor their gods or
b. are selling their services and happy to be that way

2. nobody enjoys farming or providing for themselves

3. people enjoy the taste of bland food and never suffer mentally from lack of variety at all.

Last time I looked around in my game worlds, not every village or settlement even has a 5th-level caster able to cast Create Food and Water.

 

[Quartz]

For example, Mord's Magnificent Mansion is one of my all time favorite spells. It is just so cool. But with only a single 7th level spell slot I'd probably never memorize it.

So write it on a spell scroll.