Why can't WotC break the mass market barrier?

[jmucchiello]

Which is exactly why this sort of game is targeted at the party-game market. If the goal is to grow the hobby, you're not going to get people into it who would find roleplaying stupid anyway, but since party games are more socially acceptable, they could serve to make D&D itself more socially acceptable, thus making the hobby as a whole closer to the mainstream audience.

The trick is writing an adventure that doesn't require a DM.

AND where the characters are more than stats on cardboard. I think what would make it interesting is giving each character an individual goal in addition to a group goal for the party. The individual goal would be how someone could "win", perhaps.

 

[ShadowX]

Having been heavily engaged in the recent surge of German boardgames coming to America and the community that has sprung up around them asking a similar question, I am quite familiar with the arguments hobbyists have about why their favorite activity can't find mainstream success. The basic reason is that with all the other types of activities available to young people today, boardgames and roleplaying games have much to high a barrier of entry. Especially along with the legitimate complaint that today's young person has a particular short attention span with an intense need for instant gratification.

As many posters already astutely stated, the PHB is a mammoth tome of occasionally subtle rules. Most people would identify the PHB as a textbook rather than the most important manual for what is supposed to be a fun hobby. I have problems introducing an unfamiliar boardgame with only four pages of rules and the PHB is a whole lot more intimidating. I suspect that your average person would rather sit in front of the T.V. or play Monopoly with the wrong rules than learn something as complex as D&D. Bottom line: learning rules is not fun for the vast majority of the consuming public. Even a lot of people in the hobby dislike assimilating a new ruleset and you expect people with less invested in the hobby to really expend the effort to read the rules and find a group and explain the rules to them and then find a DM (a point I will get to in a second). Finally, you run an adventure and it inevitably sucks and everyone swears of D&D.

Of course, the other major barrier to entry is the whole DM role that RPGs foist upon a group. DMing is a rough job. You have to know the rules, keep your players interested and create your own adventures or spend your money to buy them. Also, roleplaying can be a distinctly embarrassing situating for a new player which is only exacerbated in the DM chair as you are trying to entertain other people with an elaborate game of make-believe. It is a lot of responsibility and pressure for someone new, but unfortunately it is also required to make the game work.

 

[CharlesRyan]

[D&D] sales numbers now are nowhere near what they were in the early to mid 80s.

Unless you're counting MMORGs as RPGs or something.

Actually, it is true that D&D is about as popular as it's ever been. (At least, it was true two years ago when I had access to the data; I don't think there's been any huge tailing off in the past two years.)

As I stated on ENworld at the time, although direct comparisons to the early 80s are difficult because data from that time is scanty, all of the metrics we had for play, brand perception, and sales indicated that D&D was as big as ever. That's why we gave 2005 the tagline Biggest Year Ever--we wanted to counter the general perception, even among fans, that D&D was an 80s fad that was living in the shadow of its former glory. Because that's simply not the case.

And no, that's not counting MMOs, or even novels or minis. Just the RPG.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

If your local chain bookstore doesn't have a decent D&D selection, it's an abberation.

Guilty as charged. our barns and nobles store has nothing. The local game store and comicbook shop has no d&d at all. took me a year living were I am to find a gamestore too.

I live in the west LA area in marvista. Its equidistant from Culver city, marina delray and santa monica.

 

[CharlesRyan]

Guilty as charged. our barns and nobles store has nothing. The local game store and comicbook shop has no d&d at all. took me a year living were I am to find a gamestore too.

I live in the west LA area in marvista. Its equidistant from Culver city, marina delray and santa monica.

As an ex-resident of that exact area (Marina Del Rey, working in Culver City), I can attest to the barrenness of the gaming landscape. Especially after the closure of the WotC store in Santa Monica. For whatever reason, palm reading is MUCH better represented in the LA retail landscape than gaming.

But I stand by my contention that, despite LA being a major metropolis, a lack of D&D product in your major book chains remains an abberation. Most B&N stores dedicate at least a full shelf to D&D, if not more, and hundreds of them have spinner racks. Borders tends to do an even better job, and the secondary big chains (Books-a-Million, etc.) generally also stock a reasonable selection.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

i need to clarify. when i said local game store, what i meant was, a small shop that sells card games. the second time i use the word game store i mean honest to god GAMESTORE. *thank you Strategicon flyers* Its down by santa monica and its supposed to be really old. It has new management, and i hope they do well.

 

[JamesM]

As I stated on ENworld at the time, although direct comparisons to the early 80s are difficult because data from that time is scanty, all of the metrics we had for play, brand perception, and sales indicated that D&D was as big as ever. That's why we gave 2005 the tagline Biggest Year Ever--we wanted to counter the general perception, even among fans, that D&D was an 80s fad that was living in the shadow of its former glory. Because that's simply not the case.

If it's not the case, why do you think the false perception persists?

 

[TerraDave]

Actually, it is true that D&D is about as popular as it's ever been. (At least, it was true two years ago when I had access to the data; I don't think there's been any huge tailing off in the past two years.)

As I stated on ENworld at the time, although direct comparisons to the early 80s are difficult because data from that time is scanty, all of the metrics we had for play, brand perception, and sales indicated that D&D was as big as ever. That's why we gave 2005 the tagline Biggest Year Ever--we wanted to counter the general perception, even among fans, that D&D was an 80s fad that was living in the shadow of its former glory. Because that's simply not the case.

And no, that's not counting MMOs, or even novels or minis. Just the RPG.

Dear Mr. Ryan. With all due respect, this is hard to believe.

For example, there is another thread around here on Dragon circulation, and it confirms that there has been a notable fall off from the mid-80s.

And just anecdotally...back then every middle schooler seemed to have a copy of one of the basic sets or AD&D books. Of course, that doesn't mean everybody played it...

Maybe, in absolute terms, the number of long-term players is about as high (out of a much larger population), revenue (not adjusted for inflation) is higher, and D&D does maintain its brand pressence (but relies on a much wider range of products to do so). Maybe.

 

[Imaro]

Actually, it is true that D&D is about as popular as it's ever been. (At least, it was true two years ago when I had access to the data; I don't think there's been any huge tailing off in the past two years.)

As I stated on ENworld at the time, although direct comparisons to the early 80s are difficult because data from that time is scanty, all of the metrics we had for play, brand perception, and sales indicated that D&D was as big as ever. That's why we gave 2005 the tagline Biggest Year Ever--we wanted to counter the general perception, even among fans, that D&D was an 80s fad that was living in the shadow of its former glory. Because that's simply not the case.

And no, that's not counting MMOs, or even novels or minis. Just the RPG.

I just can't see this. I remember the 80's and D&D permeated nearly everything. From stickers to toys to tv to beach towels. I just don't see that now or two years ago. In other words in the 80's D&D was mainstream and it just doesn't seem that way now.

As an aside I was wondering Charles do you have any information for why the D&D boardgame was released in Europe yet never in the states. It's exactly the type of product talked about earlier but it was never pushed for the american market. I would have certainly bought it for my son if it had actually ever been sold here. Was it because WotC didn't want it to compete with the Basic Set?

 

[Asmor]

I would have certainly bought it for my son if it had actually ever been sold here.

Heck, when I found out about it I was looking for an affordable importer so I could get it for myself.