Why can't WotC break the mass market barrier?

[Gentlegamer]

Uh... no, that's not true at all. Sales numbers now are nowhere near what they were in the early to mid 80s.

I heartily agree. Others in this community have stated that RPGs are presently more popular than ever, but that's because they include:

Unless you're counting MMORGs as RPGs or something.

Video games are very popular, and RPG style video games seem to do quite well, but they aren't actually RPGs and so far no one in the industry has been able to get video game RPG (or MMO) players to crossover to real RPGs in significant numbers.

It's similar to how it would seem comic book super heroes are highly popular with the films, toys, and other licensed products, yet, comic book readership continues to plummit.

I think the real answer is that it isn't possible to go mass market with D&D. It is a niche game, and always will be. Its one hope for "expansion" is the fact that many D&Ders are now parenting age, so they can introduce it to their children and children's friends (sort of like how Gary first got the game rolling in Lake Geneva). Perhaps we ourselves can spawn new generations of gamers.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

That's why we don't need a "basic" game. We don't need an "introductory" box set. We need a D&D Party Game. We need a game that people can play for an hour or two instead of games like Apples to Apples or Taboo. Adult party games do sell pretty well, and enjoy an audience which likes little games which they can gobble up while they're having cake and coffee at the end of a get-together.

So something along the lines of a simplified Betrayal at House on the Hill?

 

[Desdichado]

Which is totally fine with me. My enjoyment of the hobby actually has nothing to do with how many other people play games -- as long as I've got enough for my gaming needs, that does the trick. There's no percentage to me in the hobby suddenly becoming hugely popular.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I've got enough material to last a lifetime of gaming. I've got more than I'm reasonably ever going to use, actually.

Therefore, I don't care too much about the health of the industry. I mean, I like having new products available, but if they weren't suddenly, I don't need 'em. I guess I simply don't feel any responsibility or duty to the hobby itself. I don't care if it grows or not. Can I find gamers to game with? Yes, so far so good. Do I have material to game with? Yes, absolutely. Therefore, the rest is all fluff and to me, ultimately unimportant.

 

[Scribble]

Welcome to what the hobby industry is like these days, Scribble. That's what model railroading is like, or model rocketry, or stamp collecting, etc., etc.

At a "mainstream" store, you can find the stuff that can get you started in the hobby, but that's about it. If you're interested in getting into model rocketry, you can get a "starter set" at Target or TRU, and probably a couple of different motor types. If you're interested in stamp collecting, you can probably find some general books on the subject, and maybe a starter kit, at Barnes & Noble. If you decide you want to get into any hobby more deeply, you need to go to a specialty store.

I have no issue with this.

But we don't even have that. We don't even have an intro D&D in TargWal a Russ...

I'd just like to see some starter D&D stuff in the big stores.

 

[kenobi65]

I have no issue with this.

But we don't even have that. We don't even have an intro D&D in TargWal a Russ...

I'd just like to see some starter D&D stuff in the big stores.

As several have noted, you can find the D&D Basic Game in Toys R Us.

Getting into Wal-Mart may be problematic, due to the company's conservative nature, and geographic strength in the Bible Belt.

Target, you would think, would be a possibility. WotC's been in Target with CCGs and minis.

However, Target (and, I'd suspect, Wal-Mart, too) would have a problem with where to stock an actual D&D book? They'd likely want to put it into the Book department, whereas WotC would probably rather have it in the Games aisle of the toy department.

Perhaps WotC could do a "boxed set" with the three core books, some minis, and some dice -- sort of an Advanced Basic Set. That'd be far easier for a Target to put on the shelf of the games aisle.

 

[Jackelope King]

In a lot of ways, what you describe could be HeroQuest. Or Munchkin.

So something along the lines of a simplified Betrayal at House on the Hill?

Essentially. The only real difference is that your target market are younger adults who enjoy party games like the aforementioned Apples to Apples and Taboo. The goal is to make the game more acceptable in public perception by dispelling the myth that "D&D is only for dorks". The people who are really excited by the concept of creating their own adventures with rules like the ones from the party game are given the information they need to get their own PHB, and ideally, a link to a (hopefully successful) Digital Initiative, where they can avoid languishing in limbo unable to find a group / DM. For many people, sure the party game would be as far as they go. But if it served to bring more fresh blood to the hobby by increasing accessiblity and acceptance, then it'd be successful.

Yeah, it's certainly been done before. It's not notably different from a game like Talisman, really. I guess JK's contention is that if that were done with the D&D brand, it would draw people into playing full-blown D&D. Maybe.

D&D is instantly-recognizeable. For many people, it is roleplaying. Now if you could put that name-recognition into a package that anyone could pick up and learn to play as quickly as you figure out games like Monopoly or Apples to Apples, and almost as important, cuts out the bottleneck of finding a DM, you'll have something that combines name-recognition and accessibility into one happy package.

 

[kenobi65]

D&D is instantly-recognizeable. For many people, it is roleplaying. Now if you could put that name-recognition into a package that anyone could pick up and learn to play as quickly as you figure out games like Monopoly or Apples to Apples, and almost as important, cuts out the bottleneck of finding a DM, you'll have something that combines name-recognition and accessibility into one happy package.

OTOH, that name recognition could cut both ways.

People who recognize the name, and associate it with geeks sitting around in their parents' basements while wearing wizard hats or something, might never pick it up just because of the name.

 

[Jackelope King]

OTOH, that name recognition could cut both ways.

People who recognize the name, and associate it with geeks sitting around in their parents' basements while wearing wizard hats or something, might never pick it up just because of the name.

Which is exactly why this sort of game is targeted at the party-game market...

 

[Jackelope King]

OTOH, that name recognition could cut both ways.

People who recognize the name, and associate it with geeks sitting around in their parents' basements while wearing wizard hats or something, might never pick it up just because of the name.

Which is exactly why this sort of game is targeted at the party-game market. If the goal is to grow the hobby, you're not going to get people into it who would find roleplaying stupid anyway, but since party games are more socially acceptable, they could serve to make D&D itself more socially acceptable, thus making the hobby as a whole closer to the mainstream audience.

 

[DragonLancer]

That's pretty much where I'm at. I've got enough material to last a lifetime of gaming. I've got more than I'm reasonably ever going to use, actually.

Therefore, I don't care too much about the health of the industry. I mean, I like having new products available, but if they weren't suddenly, I don't need 'em. I guess I simply don't feel any responsibility or duty to the hobby itself. I don't care if it grows or not. Can I find gamers to game with? Yes, so far so good. Do I have material to game with? Yes, absolutely. Therefore, the rest is all fluff and to me, ultimately unimportant.

Sorry, I appear to be picking on your posts today and thats not my intent.

I do have to disagree here. We need to ensure that the hobby gaming industry continues to grow. I can't believe that any gamer worth his or her salt doesn't care whether or not the industry just dries up. Thats crazy.