D&D 5E Why D&D Can't Have a Good Video Game

[doctorbadwolf]

There are a ton of good games right now. Vanishingly few of them are from the big studios, but I guarantee Tell Tale could make a crazy good dnd game, for instance.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I say its because a D&D game would be, by nature, tied to D&D's system itself, which, when all is said and done? Is actually not that great of a system for video games.

I would say that D&D rules (some editions at least) actually work better in a video game than in live play. For example, Temple of Elemental Evil is quite possibly the most fun I've ever had with the actual 3e rules, because everything is automated, but most of it is still there.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

My first thought was to just have a Final Fantasy Tactics style game, or even better the new Project Octopath 2D-HD style (or whatever they're calling it). A Turn-Based RPG with classes.

But maybe it's time to go at a D&D video game from a different angle, maybe the "RPG" is a pitfall that we gravitate to because it seems like a Table Top RPG and an Action/Adventure RPG would be the obvious fit. They both have the word RPG in them after all.
Maybe the urge to codify the D&D mechanics to a computer is a pitfall. Maybe the next D&D video game shouldn't have any of the D&D mechanics.

Instead maybe the next D&D video game should leverage story and setting.

When you're playing D&D and you're not in combat, what happens? A scene is set with you and other things to interact with, you explore the scene and choose what to interact with, and those interactions have you make meaningful decisions that will have some benefit or consequence.

If you squint your eyes, that looks like a Telltale games to me.

I think maybe the next D&D video game should be an interactive story-type game like Life is Strange or Telltale. No Attack Buttons or Stats or HP or AC or even Class. Just a really really solid and interesting story set in the D&D world with well rounded interesting characters that you grow to care about. Where you make choices that will have meaning and impact to the story and the characters that you meet.

Also it wouldn't cost hundreds of millions of dollars or take 5 years to make. And since 75% of the video game is the story and not video game graphic rendering, coding, computer mumbo-jumbo, the WotC Team can have a direct and meaningful impact on the final product. Meaning, If the video game fails its because the story and characters weren't interesting and compelling enough not because the graphics were sub-par or it wasn't running at 60fps, because the Interactive Story Video Game player base are more forgiving with things like that (compared to the Witcher/Final Fantasy MMOrpg player base) if the story makes up for it.

Telltale Games could even make the game. They have shown they can do medieval-type games with GoT and can make humanoids be relatable and not seem out of place with humans with GotG. Really a Telltale D&D game would just be a mash-up of GoT and GotG

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Maybe the urge to codify the D&D mechanics to a computer is a pitfall. Maybe the next D&D video game shouldn't have any of the D&D mechanics.

I don't know; I tend not to like the D&D games without D&D mechanics. The only exception I can think of is Planescape: Torment, which was great, even though it took liberties with the mechanics for the main character. But then again, Planescape is a D&D IP setting that is more amenable to separation from D&D mechanics than most.

 

[Charles Rampant]

It's only been three months since [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION]'s last thread on this topic (see here). I didn't realize it was time for another one already.

That's the problem with reading a forum - you start to get bored with how often people repeat themselves :/

 

[happyhermit]

I honestly don't see what the point is, other than Wotc and Hasbro making more money off their IP. I see why people want to have these types of games but the appeal of an "official" D&D game eludes me. Of course, if they make a D&D game they should adhere closely to the 5e rules otherwise people will be upset, whether those rules work especially well for a video game or not. Of course, any video game will only give you a tiny slice of the possibilities in the full game and ruleset anyways. I might possibly be interested in a new turn based style game like BG1-2, because I haven't seen too many games like that lately but having the D&D brand and rules would be a a very minor plus. As mentioned above, if I want to sit down at a computer and play a D&D like game, I can just play actual D&D on roll20 or wherever. If I have the spare time there are hundreds of hours of great games of D&D that I would probably rather watch than play a game that really only allows a small portion of the possibilities.

So, can anyone tell me why they (not Wotc) need an official D&D game? Is it because they actually think the 5e rules would make for a great platform?

 

[L R Ballard]

IMO, why they haven't had a good recent D&D video game is because they insist on making them action RPGs and not turn based RPGs. D&D is a turn based game, and if you have to completely rewrite all the skills, powers, and spells to work on a timer countdown or something like that, it doesn't feel like D&D. It's just another action fantasy RPG.

Yes, this is the thing that game developers who want to make D&D video games are missing.

Most D&D role-players don't want a “real-time” D&D video game; they want to keep the turn-based, chess-like tempo of the game but see improved 3D digital assets.

Perhaps what prevents D&D from having an epic digital presence is that it's a misnomer to call what D&Ders want a “video game.”

If tabletop role-players want anything digital at all, they want 3D digital assets that represent characters and environments better so they can track interactions, movement, and combat within the context of the tabletop game.

So, let’s premise that any digital presence for D&D must keep the turn-based tempo and enhance the experience of tabletop role-players with access to visual technologies.

Then game developers need to focus 3D digital asset creation on three things:

1. Environments: Make highly detailed textures and meshes that offer jawdropping dungeons, cities, and wildlands.

2. Character Portraiture: D&D players pretend to be other people, heroes and heroines. Most players have good ideas of what their characters look like, and, often, they can find miniatures that represent them well enough.

But there’s a problem making or using an accurate digital character portrait when D&D players use digital tools to represent their characters. Take Neverwinter Nights, for example. It’s a fun video game, but it offers a limited number of premade characters to choose from. I choose the barbarian or the halfling thief. It’s a blast to play, but those aren’t my heroes.

Even when the character portraiture tools are good, they never yield characters on par with the best graphics at that time. The D&D development budget sacrifices the highest-resolution graphics for environments and character portraiture to code all the “real-time” video gamey stuff that tabletop role-players don’t care about.

Usually, I don’t play D&D video games. When I want to play a video game, I’m going to play Skyrim.

3. Modding Tools: Modding tools are, in fact, why I’d rather play Skyrim than anything using D&D’s intellectual property—if I’m going to play a video game.

Modding tools let me draw the characters from the imagination of my youth. The characters I made for Skyrim are closer than any representation I’ve seen or made in any other game. And it’s a kick to see them adventuring.

The big disappointment is that there’s nothing state-of-the-art 3D digital out there that allows me to use D&D IP and share it with others.

I speak for a lot of gamers when I say that what we want for digital D&D is turn-based 3D mapping with the highest-quality art possible.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But maybe it's time to go at a D&D video game from a different angle, maybe the "RPG" is a pitfall that we gravitate to because it seems like a Table Top RPG and an Action/Adventure RPG would be the obvious fit. They both have the word RPG in them after all. Maybe the urge to codify the D&D mechanics to a computer is a pitfall. Maybe the next D&D video game shouldn't have any of the D&D mechanics.

The video game genre of RPG is recognized by the degree to which it resembles classic D&D. It's defined by its mechanics. The class and level system, HP, spell slots, random encounters, and abstract turn-based combat are the foundations of the genre. The further you get away from those things, the less the game is even recognizable as an RPG.

I guess you could put out a video game that was based on the D&D setting but wasn't even an RPG, but that seems like it would have all the same problems of the D&D movies. The setting, in as much as you can say that D&D even has a setting, isn't nearly as exciting is the mechanics which are used to describe that setting.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

I don't know; I tend not to like the D&D games without D&D mechanics. The only exception I can think of is Planescape: Torment, which was great, even though it took liberties with the mechanics for the main character. But then again, Planescape is a D&D IP setting that is more amenable to separation from D&D mechanics than most.

It's understandable to want the D&D video game to be similar to the D&D table top game. It's even logical, D&D already has stats and HP and levels and classes, so why not just port it to a video game. But I think the problem is that it leads to a rabbit hole, a very complicated and expensive rabbit hole.

That rabbit hole is even reflected here in this very thread, everyone is talking about how the fighting system should be, and all the classes they want, and how amazing the graphic needs to be, the quality of the environment, modifications, personalization, graphics, customizability, comparing it to previous D&D games, comparing it to current RPGs. It's daunting and I think its near impossible.

But most of all I don't think anyone else has even mentioned Storytelling. Which I would argue is the element that made D&D not only great but to exist in the first place.

I think instead of making an RPG and forcing it to go up against fan base expectations, and up against dozens of well established juggernaut RPGs. Making it an interactive story and have it go up against Life is Strange and Telltale is more doable.

I think giving people this nice little thing that they didn't even know they wanted and pleasantly surprising them is better then trying to give people this big thing that they want and falling short and disappointing them.

 

[Sunseeker]

D&D is a system, and in some respects it's a philosophical approach to a game and not even the mechanics. Asking why it doesn't have a good game is IMO, missing the point. D&D has many great games. WoW, Guild Wars & Guild Wars 2, Dragon Age. Any "psuedo-medieval" "age of magic" "swords and sorcery" game currently on the market is a D&D game. A Greyhawk or Eberron game may not look exactly like the D&D we're all playing at the table, and there's really no reason it should. Translating the D&D mechanics into a video game is silly and pointless. D&D isn't the mechanics. No system is. CoC isn't about rolling a d100 to see how much sanity you lose, it's about trying to survive on the edge of a society being overrun by eldritch horrors.

If you're asking why a game lacks specific spells and specific races and specific classes that's in part because A: Wizards is overprotective with their license and often makes poor decisions in their digital endevours and B: a lot of these elements are boring and generic. People need to get it out of their heads that a "D&D video game" needs to look anything like the experience of people at a table. What a D&D game needs to encapsulate is reliable mechanics, diversity of character options and a rich world that people can recognize as a D&D-type world.

As above, you could take any modern game on the market and play it at your home table with D&D mechanics. You may have to restrict a few elements and improvise a few others, but what is important is the flavor, the lore, the theme and the story.