D&D 5E Why D&D Can't Have a Good Video Game

L R Ballard

Explorer
As someone who loved Temple of Elemental Evil (so much so that I helped out with the modding community on it) because it replicated the D&D mechanics so closely, I have to disagree with the folks saying a good D&D game needs to ignore the mechanics. I probably played through ToEE over a dozen times trying out different character builds and party compositions.

Yes, using 5e mechanics--the example of the most recent iteration of the game's rules--makes a D&D game a D&D game; working with the 5e mechanics is also an antecedent condition for using the Forgotten Realms IP on DMs Guild, if one both had permission from WotC and were so inclined.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Rather than a licensing fee they could have a %, If the game is a hit WoTC gets more money, if its a dud the developer pays nothing.
 

I wonder how much this plays into it. If they made a D&D game that you played, front to back, in 10-20 hours, people would lose their collective minds. How could a D&D game be so limited???!?!??! But, on the other hand, these extended games are a lot harder to find a market for. Once upon a time, you'd play a game for 50 hours and that was pretty routine. Things like the Ultima games and whatnot, is what I'm thinking of.

I'm not sure how much market there really is for a D&D branded, open world game where you're expected to grind through 40+ hours of play to finish the game.

Yow know I'm not even sure If the issue is even the length in and of itself. It might have just as much to do with the Action/Adventure RPG genre. Plus there are lots of Gamers that don't play RPG video games, who prefer a good story over fighting mechanics, they deserve a D&D game as much as anyone.

I'd argue that Story is, at the very least, equal to mechanics in D&D. Now we've had video games that focused on replicating those mechanics, now how about a video game that focused on replicating those stories.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

You want to see a good D&D video game? WotC/Hasbro just needs to open up the D&D worlds & 'game' (TM'ed names and such), and put a license on it free to any who want, with the same general stipulations that the Unreal Engine has. (Unreal Engine 4, for those not into video games, is AAA game engine that anyone can download and use, for free, but if/when a game gets published you agree to give Epic Games [makers of UE] a cut of the profits ["...5% of all worldwide gross revenue"]). Here: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/eula?prox=1

If WotC did this, it wouldn't preclude them from making a 200 million dollar AAA game at all. The people using the "D&D game system" would almost guarantee to be non-pro's or semi-pro's (e.g., students, weekend game makers, indie teams, etc). We would see D&D games start to pop up here and there...most would suck, sure, but some might be really cool and fun. And there would be a large pool of 'styles' of games to choose from; from card-based combat games, to miniature tactics style games, to dungeon assault games, to whatever.

But this will never happen. Not in a million years. Ergo, we will never see a "good" D&D game. In any video format anyway. No matter what WotC would create, there would be bad-reviews from those who wanted something else. But open it up and let the masses make all manner of D&D-based video games? Well, now you have a lot of games, each with some good and some bad reviews, but nothing that's going to affect any other D&D-based game. I mean, if Naughty Dog puts out a great game, the fact that Activision puts out a similar, but crappy, game doesn't matter. Same thing with opening up D&D to everyone ala Epic with UE4.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

I don't think it has to fully replicate every single mechanic and that it can't rebalance or jigger with pacing and number of combats between rests. But it should still feel very much like D&D. Familiar mechanics should be there and do familiar things.

After all, if there was a football video game, you'd expect it to follow most of the rules of football. You'd expect field goals, defensive sides, yards, downs, and the like. You expect golf games to have clubs, wind, greens, fairways, and counting strokes .

You can't change all the mechanics and make a generic fantasy RPG videogame, then slap a beholder in it and call it "D&D".

A Telltale Forgotten Realms game could be fun. You. Could do a great fantasy game in a D&D world. But I don't think it would be a D&D game. Just like if you did a Telltale game about a hockey team going through the playoffs and having locker room drama it wouldn't be a "hockey video game."

Ya it's really curious how not only do individual people have different thresholds but also how some genres/IPs are given different amounts of leeway.

I'ts funny that you mention football and golf tho because there is a game called Bloodbowl that is a football game but each team is a different fantasy race Elf/Dwarf/Orcs, and is turn-based and the only thing that resembles football is that you're on a football field and there is a football that you have to take to the end zone to score points. And there is a new golf game coming out soon that is an RPG golf game. I personally consider them a 'football game' and a 'golf game'.

Then there is games like Mario Bros. which has Mario World, Mario RPG, Rabbits+Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy. All of them completely different genres of video games but also all of them are equally "Mario games"

Batman has gone from a Comic to, cartoons, to side-scrolling video game, to movies, to Arkham series, to Telltale, and they're all considered just different aspects and forms of interaction with the Batman IP.

Personally, I would consider a Telltale D&D game as equally D&D as the TOEE video game, or the D&D movies and cartoon, or all the D&D books, or Critical Role and Acq Inc, or any of the Editions. To me they're are all just different aspects of what D&D is and different forms of interacting with the D&D IP.

I think it would be beneficial to D&D, and by extension to all of us, if we showed D&D that we'd allow it space/permission to grow and expand. And not feel like we need it to only be this thing, or that it can only stray this far or else we won't accept it.
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
I wonder how much this plays into it. If they made a D&D game that you played, front to back, in 10-20 hours, people would lose their collective minds. How could a D&D game be so limited???!?!??! But, on the other hand, these extended games are a lot harder to find a market for. Once upon a time, you'd play a game for 50 hours and that was pretty routine. Things like the Ultima games and whatnot, is what I'm thinking of.

I'm not sure how much market there really is for a D&D branded, open world game where you're expected to grind through 40+ hours of play to finish the game.
I would think that in the era of micropurchases that D&D games would leverage their history of modules and crank out short (5-10hr) adventures that you can string a character through. Base game and and a "Keep on the Borderlands" is free. Other adventures cost between 3 and 10 dollars.

The part that always gets me though, is the party solo play. Part of the fun for me is playing with others. For that, I'm not sure how much a video game would add to the online tabletop experience.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using EN World mobile app
 

I'ts funny that you mention football and golf tho because there is a game called Bloodbowl that is a football game but each team is a different fantasy race Elf/Dwarf/Orcs, and is turn-based and the only thing that resembles football is that you're on a football field and there is a football that you have to take to the end zone to score points. And there is a new golf game coming out soon that is an RPG golf game. I personally consider them a 'football game' and a 'golf game'.
The whole point of something like Bloodbowl is that it's "football with a twist". It relies on football being so commonplace and well known, a parody of it can exist.

Then there is games like Mario Bros. which has Mario World, Mario RPG, Rabbits+Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy. All of them completely different genres of video games but also all of them are equally "Mario games"

Batman has gone from a Comic to, cartoons, to side-scrolling video game, to movies, to Arkham series, to Telltale, and they're all considered just different aspects and forms of interaction with the Batman IP.
Those are games based on characters. D&D is a game based on rules. Completely different things.

Personally, I would consider a Telltale D&D game as equally D&D as the TOEE video game, or the D&D movies and cartoon, or all the D&D books, or Critical Role and Acq Inc, or any of the Editions. To me they're are all just different aspects of what D&D is and different forms of interacting with the D&D IP.
I think a Telltale style D&D game would be awesome. But it's less a "D&D game" and more a game telling a "D&D story". It could be fun, in the same way that the Betrayal at Baldur's Gate can be fun and somewhat of a D&D experience or reading the official D&D comic book. But I don't think it's what most people are looking for when they request a new D&D videogame.

You could turn the board game Pandemic into a great Telltale game, about CDC operatives traversing the globe while trying to combat four simultaneous outbreaks of viruses. But I doubt it would be what fans of the game want when they ask for a "Pandemic video game", which is the experience of playing Pandemic, but digitally.

Arguably, we should be differentiating based on if people are asking for a "D&D branded video game" or a "D&D roleplaying game based on the TTRPG". But that's a lot of clarifying text.

I think it would be beneficial to D&D, and by extension to all of us, if we showed D&D that we'd allow it space/permission to grow and expand. And not feel like we need it to only be this thing, or that it can only stray this far or else we won't accept it.
It's beneficial to the game, but it's not beneficial to the people who only engage with the brand through the TTRPG and have no interest in a board game (Betrayal at Baldur's Gate or Against the Giants)or comic books, or webshows, or action RPG video games (Neverwinter). It's not beneficial for people who just want an opportunity to play the game they like solo.

It's not about accepting it or not. It's about it being the product we want or not.
 

The whole point of something like Bloodbowl is that it's "football with a twist". It relies on football being so commonplace and well known, a parody of it can exist.

D&D has just as many parodies and knock-offs, so if a Telltale D&D is a parody then it should exist

Those are games based on characters. D&D is a game based on rules. Completely different things.

D&D is only partly based on it's rules. Characters play a big part in D&D, Elminster, Dritzzt, Misc, Tiamat, I've never come across any of them in a session but I know who they are because people talk about them when they talk about D&D. You can even argue that some monsters are D&D characters like Mind Flayers and Beholders.

I think a Telltale style D&D game would be awesome. But it's less a "D&D game" and more a game telling a "D&D story". It could be fun, in the same way that the Betrayal at Baldur's Gate can be fun and somewhat of a D&D experience or reading the official D&D comic book. But I don't think it's what most people are looking for when they request a new D&D videogame.

Ya I agree with you that it's not what most the people are looking for in a D&D videogame, at least not the people that play D&D TTRPGs and videogames.

You could turn the board game Pandemic into a great Telltale game, about CDC operatives traversing the globe while trying to combat four simultaneous outbreaks of viruses. But I doubt it would be what fans of the game want when they ask for a "Pandemic video game", which is the experience of playing Pandemic, but digitally.

That's different tho, Pandemic doesn't have any real meaty fluff to work with, and a digital port is arguably more a tabletop simulator then a videogame.

But they did make the tabletop game Battleship into a movie. It was a flop because it was terrible but I remember people being curious about it specifically because they were making a tabletop game into a movie.

I'm really curious how many Hardcore Battleship players wouldn't watch the movie because it wasn't 'true to the game' or whatever. And how many people that watched the movie gave the game a try specifically because of the movie.

Either case, even tho the movie was a horrible failure I'm sure none of the Hardcore Battleship players stopped playing the game because of it, and I'm sure some people started playing the game because of the movie.

Arguably, we should be differentiating based on if people are asking for a "D&D branded video game" or a "D&D roleplaying game based on the TTRPG". But that's a lot of clarifying text.

Ya I agree. But I still think that a Telltale/Life is Strange game is more then just a "D&D branded video game."

It's beneficial to the game, but it's not beneficial to the people who only engage with the brand through the TTRPG and have no interest in a board game (Betrayal at Baldur's Gate or Against the Giants)or comic books, or webshows, or action RPG video games (Neverwinter). It's not beneficial for people who just want an opportunity to play the game they like solo.

It's not about accepting it or not. It's about it being the product we want or not.

I disagree, I think it's beneficial even to the people that only play the TTRPG. Exposure brings in new players and new players benefits people who only engage with the TTRPG

I'm sure there's plenty of D&D players who's gateway was the D&D books or comic. Or D&D players who's gateway was watching Critical Role or Rollplay on twitch or youtube. Or D&D players who's gateway was TOEE, Baldurs Gate, or Neverwinter.

Also I think maybe depending on the gateway, it brings over a player base with certain assumptions and skill sets that inform and direct the way you start to play D&D.

The player base that was exposed to D&D by way of the TOEE videogame will already know what classes, HP, Levels, and AC are, and will know how turn base combat works. That player base will most likely lean into the Combat aspect of D&D because it's so prominent in the videogame.

But a Telltale/Life is Strange player base won't know what HP or AC is, but they will lean more into the character development and meaningful decision making story aspect of D&D.

Which would benefit me because I like wondering if the Elf and Dwarf are going to overcome their racial baggage and smooch, or get sad because the Human died and the Tiefling never got a chance to confess their love, or wonder if the cowardly Halfling will overcome their fear and help their party when the time comes or run away then watch them struggle with their guilt.

Hmm... I'm starting to think that maybe I just want a Telltale D&D game because I think it'll bring in a bunch of players that love melodrama as much as I do lol
 


Nemio

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