Why D&D Should Be More Like WoW

[Zaruthustran]

Wow, TERRIFIC post. So, perhaps 4E should make 1st level just as simple as WoW, and have the first feat or other "you have to know the game in order to make an informed decision" choice come into play at, say, 3rd or 4th level. That way, the true newbs can get in and play right away, while there's an understanding that experienced players will simply start new campaigns at 3rd or 4th level.

Also, very much agree that 4E's shining of a spotlight on character roles (making the concept explicit, rather than implicit) is a great idea. Same goes for monster roles--really helps a DM.

For rate of advancement, I'd be happy with 1 level per 1-2 sessions.

 

[HeyJoe]

As much as I enjoy WoW, I would prefer that D&D NOT become "like WoW". Apparently Chris Metzen, WoW's lore guru, feels the same since he is also the creative head behind the Warcraft RPG which uses the D20 system.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Your post was very insightful and thoughtful, however, I hope in some regards that you are way off base. My biggest problem with MMORPGs is the O part. There is no "role-play", your interaction is pre-programmed and the ultimate goal is still hack n' slash or mine 'n buff.

If combat is the ultimate goal of your D&D experience, then 4e's online aspect is perfect, why cancel a session when you're out of town; log-on and loot! But if interactive role playing is a staple of your game table (I rely on subterfuge and intrigue as key elements of my game) the more combat heavy style becomes useless (one of my biggest gripes about 3.X has been the only real way to level is by combat.)

I hope that even though these tools are available, it doesn't become the norm. It may be great for when a player has the chickenpox and can't com to the session, but as a standard, I feel it will cheapen the basis for which "RPGs" were a big draw in the 'golden days', social interaction in a fantasy setting, not just killing things and taking their stuff.

 

[Nebulous]

My biggest knee kick gut reaction is that i don't LIKE WoW...and hence, i don't want my D&D to be like it. Although it might be beneficial to sample some of its ideas.

 

[Zaruthustran]

one of my biggest gripes about 3.X has been the only real way to level is by combat.

Hmm. Neither I nor my players enjoy calculating and tracking XP. Instead, we just level every 3-4 sessions.

I wonder if 4E will dispose of the fiddly 3E XP-tracking system, with all its carefully calculated numbers meant to provide a level after 3-4 sessions. And instead, just say "don't bother with tracking each and every experience point. Just have everyone level after X play sessions."

That'd go a long way, I think, to making the game more accessible. Tracking and doling out XP is annoying and slows the game way down.

 

[Alchemist]

Hmm. Neither I nor my players enjoy calculating and tracking XP. Instead, we just level every 3-4 sessions.

I wonder if 4E will dispose of the fiddly 3E XP-tracking system, with all its carefully calculated numbers meant to provide a level after 3-4 sessions. And instead, just say "don't bother with tracking each and every experience point. Just have everyone level after X play sessions."

That'd go a long way, I think, to making the game more accessible. Tracking and doling out XP is annoying and slows the game way down.

I'm not much for fiddly, engineered solutions to xp either; we level when we've done enough stuff to earn enough xp, not every 3-4 sessions. I think that making it a flat "You level every X sessions" potentially eliminates one of the drives to go outside the party comfort zone. Why take big risks without big rewards? Side quests come to mind; why attempt something that doesn't further the plot if it might get you killed, unless the rewards are commensurate? Gold and magic isn't enough for me...

 

[DonTadow]

NOOOOO I say

The thing that makes D and D different than every other mmorpg is the amount of customization. Whereas some people like Wow many hate it for its simplistic character design. Simplifying game play is one thing but taking away what makes a character individual is dungeons and dragons suicide.

Perhaps you take away skill ranks but the player still should select primary skills. And then secondary skills. But do'nt take that choice away.

 

[DonTadow]

My two cents:

- I totally agree with simplifying character creation; but I do not think that 4E will be generally going in that direction. I've suggested that on these boards before, and the overwhelming response (here at least) is that people want more, more, more customization options for their new character.

- I disagree with the predefined roles issue.

- I think that playing any time online is a definite win for WOW, and that's the nature of a successful MMORPG. However, I think that D&D attempting to compete for that business, trying to straddle the tabletop/online-software worlds, is potentially very damaging: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_competency

I think more generally what you dont address is 4E starting to borrow specific game mechanics from WOW -- moving towards matching races, classes, levels, combat, magic system, etc. That will be hard for some of us to watch.

The one thing D and D does not need todo is reinvent the wheel. What slows down character creation in D and D?

Skills. Eliminate the ranks, you just get flat out skills ala true 20. Now u just pick a feat (maybe two) and thats it.

Well there's the ability scores too, but this can be sidestepped by providingan array (forget point buy).

There's no escaping the other slowdown in character creation; options. Eventually there will be many again then DMs need to just regulate what material is used and not used especially for newbies.

 

[Psion]

Well repost my response from the same post on RPGnet, and see how it floats here.

Thanks for crystalizing why I am ambivalent about the evolution of D&D. Your paragraph on roles make it clear to me: It's all about the combat.

I hade hoped, since D&D 3e had a credible skill system, a good one even, that the scope of the founding conflict would stretch beyond combat. But as your analysis seems to conclude, that's really not a big part of the equation for them.

Unfortunate.

 

[Corinth]

The smartest thing that can be done to speed up character creation is to do one thing that WOW gets right: make all characters of a given race and class have the exact same set of initial ability scores, and track it that way through progression. The player need only choose race, class, Talent and gear options; the stats themselves are already optimized in WOW and it's not that hard to do so for D&D. This insures that new players don't make useless, gimped characters that can't do their job in the party; this is okay because the needs of the group always trump the desires of any specific individual.