D&D General Why defend railroading?

[TheSword]

There's no penalty to the players if a small town doesn't have a scroll shop. In 5e the default assumption is that there aren't any magic shops at all. If the DM is adding them in to some or all major cities, that's a bonus for the players, not a penalty.

The penalty is in taking away something that otherwise in my campaigns is present.

You could replace scroll shop with gem merchant (as the original example), wizard with spell books to transcribe from, or an armourer selling breastplates or splint mail. There the same principles would apply.

 

[Stalker0]

Let me throw an olive branch to the other side.

I do agree that “DM tricks” can be a crutch if overused, and though I will never agree to their elimination, I agree thst DMs should maintain some openmindedness.

this is especially important to new DMs. For those who are still learning their improvisation skills, players going in a different direction can be daunting. But I do think it’s important for new DMs to not reign this in too much and learn how to go with the flow…both for practice and to learn if they enjoy thst dm style better.

Using DM tricks to save prep time is fine, as well as using them with a practiced eye of enhancing the game experience. Using them because you are fearful to try dm improvisation is a problem.

 

[Maxperson]

The penalty is in taking away something that otherwise in my campaigns is present.

You could replace scroll shop with gem merchant (as the original example), wizard with spell books to transcribe from, or an armourer selling breastplates or splint mail. There the same principles would apply.

A small town would probably have a general store and would be hard pressed to a have an inn. Why would it have a shop for magic scrolls? It's not like the local population could afford it and if enough rich people came through it, it wouldn't be a small town. It would grow to service those wealthy people and be at least a large town. It makes no sense for anything smaller than a large town to have a potion or scroll shop, and even most of those probably wouldn't be able to support one.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm probably trying to stop continuing to watch this, but I'm amazed how in span of five pages the definition of railroad has evolved again ._.; And I'm once again confused about what is everyone's stance

I think if you wait around for common agreement on what constitutes railroading, you'll be waiting forever. Where people draw the line is all over the map.

I will also note that "end of the world" plot isn't usually literally "world blows up", its usually "status quo of world changes drastically". Aka lich undead kingdom IS "end of the world" plot

I think "You and everyone you know are now a mindless zombie" is close enough to the end of the world for most people's purposes.

 

[Ovinomancer]

While I'm sympathetic in principal to this idea, my experience suggests strongly that if the GM doesn't take the lead when it comes to things like that, usually no one does; and in the cases where someone else does, its almost always the same person and that creates its own problematic dynamics. You're too likely to have one or more manifestly nonconfrontational players who will not tell other people they dislike things at any cost, including simply stopping playing if necessary.

Don't disagree. This is because the GM has been routinely pitched as the leader of the social unit rather than a fellow participant rather than the way it should be, where everyone is responsible for the social contract equally. RPGs are not a special instance of social gatherings that put the onus on one person to maintain the social contract.

 

[Maxperson]

A first level scroll is 10-60 gp.

So about a year or two of wages for a farmer.

A second or first level scroll is 100-600… still less than several armours…

Beyond even the Mayor of a small town to afford.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A first level scroll is 10-60 gp.

It's not the price, it's the supply. And the demand. Given that a typical small town has maybe one resident wizard, she isn't isn't going to spend her time making scrolls to sell to herself. As you say, she might be happy to trade spells with a PC wizard though.

A second or first level scroll is 100-600… still less than several armours…

A suit of full plate would require a professional armorer, who is also unlikely to be found in a small town.

I personally don’t have an issue with it, then again I spent most of my gaming time on 3e / Pathfinder so it’s probably affected my view on what’s reasonable.

Small towns not having 16,000gp items for sale is a refreshing improvement.

I hated the Pathfinder gonzo magic item glut!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

some people just want to have the last word.

Oh no they don't!

 

[TheSword]

A small town would probably have a general store and would be hard pressed to a have an inn. Why would it have a shop for magic scrolls? It's not like the local population could afford it and if enough rich people came through it, it wouldn't be a small town. It would grow to service those wealthy people and be at least a large town. It makes no sense for anything smaller than a large town to have a potion or scroll shop, and even most of those probably wouldn't be able to support one.

Have you played in the Forgotten Realms, or Eberron?

… ever read a Volo’s guidebook?
… or read Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
… or any Paizo Adventure Path.

Prevalence of magic and resources is a dial, you turn up or down. If you prefer one inn every 150 miles that’s your prerogative.

 

[TheSword]

It's not the price, it's the supply. And the demand. Given that a typical small town has maybe one resident wizard, she isn't isn't going to spend her time making scrolls to sell to herself. As you say, she might be happy to trade spells with a PC wizard though.

A suit of full plate would require a professional armorer, who is also unlikely to be found in a small town.

What about a breastplate? I think PCs would be disappointed if they couldn’t buy a breastplate or splint mail in a small town. I think it would be odd if you couldn’t get these things in a town in the forgotten realms default setting. Healing potions are on the PhB equipment list, as is alchemists fire. All more expensive than the average 1st level scroll.

I hated the Pathfinder gonzo magic item glut!

Me too. I just think there’s a happy balance. Particularly in some settings.