D&D General Why defend railroading?

[TheSword]

A random encounter is not even close to being a procedurally generated adventure.

A random encounter is not a "chaff" encounter. If a DM is throwing in random encounters as some kind of punctuation to a game than that DM, is sad to say, completely cluessless about what they are doing.

A random encounter is simply a way of applying risk as a consequence.

If the party decide to short cut through the Forest of Yoth known to be haunted by monsters there are three possibles consequences in terms of danger.

• DM decides nothing dangerous happens
• DM decides something very dangerous happens.
• DM decides that something dangerous might happen.

Only in the third instance can travelling through the forest be presented as a genuine calculated risk rather than a categorically good or bad idea.

You’re talking about whether an encounter occurs at all. That isn’t what this is about.

You’re not reading Pemerton’s post. I and he are talking about when the type of creatures are random and the number of them arriving is random.

In which case 1 orc is a chaff encounter and 12 Orcs on the back of a previous roll of 12 Orcs becomes overwhelming.

It’s not to say I don’t enjoy easy combats or overwhelming combats, occasionally. I just prefer them to be occasional and not the meat of a session as a result of random chance. The DM steps in to prevent it being ridiculous.

 

[Don Durito]

You’re talking about whether an encounter occurs at all. That isn’t what this is about.

You’re not reading Pemerton’s post. I and he are talking about when the type of creatures are random and the number of them arriving is random.

In which case 1 orc is a chaff encounter and 12 Orcs on the back of a previous roll of 12 Orcs becomes overwhelming.

It’s not to say I don’t enjoy easy combats or overwhelming combats, occasionally. I just prefer them to be occasional and not the meat of a session as a result of random chance.

I am talking about the same thing!

What happens when 12 Orcs encounter a party? They threaten the party, demand their surrender etc. What happens when 1 Orc encounters the party? Clearly he can't win a fight against them, so there's a different sort of encounter. Maybe he runs away and the party try to silence him, or they track him back to his lair.

It's only a chaff encounter if for some reason the GM isn't playing the NPCs.

Rolling how many Orcs there are is part of the randomness of the risk playing out.

Yes it can get overwhelming. That's why it's a calculated risk on the part of the PCs and why a randomiser is used rather than the DM just deciding to be a dick.

 

[TheSword]

I am talking about the same thing!

What happens when 12 Orcs encounter a party? They threaten the party, demand their surrender etc. What happens when 1 Orc encouters the party? Clearly he can't win a fight against them, so there's a different sort of encounter. Maybe he runs away and the party try to silence him, or they track him back to his lair.

It's only a chaff encounter if for some reason the GM isn't playing the NPCs.

What you just said is all well and good, but bears no relation to your previous post.

As I said, I don’t mind those encounters occasionally but when random chance means we get a lone creature 3 times in a row I get bored. When we get 12 Orcs, 3 times in a row I get annoyed. Its just bad pacing because the decisions on pacing are being left to a dice roll.

Random encounters are fine, but the DM isn’t a slave to the dice roll and there is nothing wrong with being able to override or amend them at will.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If the party decide to short cut through the Forest of Yoth known to be haunted by monsters there are three possibles consequences in terms of danger.

• DM decides nothing dangerous happens
• DM decides something very dangerous happens.
• DM decides that something dangerous might happen.

You might also also have:

• Something mildly dangerous happens.
• Something interesting but has no mechanical effect happens.
• Something beneficial happens.
• Something dangerous happens that leads to something beneficial (XP! Phat loot!)

Only in the third instance can travelling through the forest be presented as a genuine calculated risk rather than a categorically good or bad idea.

So far as the players know, it's a always a calculated risk. They have been told the forest is dangerous. If they choose to go that way it's because they feel they can handle any threats the forest might throw at them. If they choose a longer, safer path it's because they feel vulnerable. If they use sending to contact a friend with an airship and fly over it's because they have thought of something the DM didn't.

But it really doesn't matter how the party gets from A to B, or what they bump into on the way. What matters is why the are traveling from A to B.

 

[Don Durito]

You might also also have:

• Something mildly dangerous happens.
• Something interesting but has no mechanical effect happens.
• Something beneficial happens.
• Something dangerous happens that leads to something beneficial (XP! Phat loot!)

So far as the players know, it's a always a calculated risk. They have been told the forest is dangerous. If they choose to go that way it's because they feel they can handle any threats the forest might throw at them. If they choose a longer, safer path it's because they feel vulnerable. If they use sending to contact a friend with an airship and fly over it's because they have thought of something the DM didn't.

But it really doesn't matter how the party gets from A to B, or what they bump into on the way. What matters is why the are traveling from A to B.

I think you mean so far as the characters know. It's pretty obvious to the players.

I don't get how people can't see the distinction here.

Bob the Paladin. I go for a walk on the Moors.
DM: Really? There's a severe thunderstorm blowing and you're wearing full plate.
Bob: Yeah. I'll take my chances.
DM: Ok. After Five minutes you get struck by lightning make a save,

Vs

Bob the Paladin. I go for a walk on the Moors.
DM: Really? There's a severe thunderstorm blowing and you're wearing full plate.
Bob: Yeah. I'll take my chances.
DM: Ok. I reckon the chance of being struck is about 1 in 20. Does that sound fair? Ok Bob you rolll.
Bob: Natural 1! Damn
DM: Ok. Roll a save.

I struggle to understand how these two things are equivalent.

(Of course in many such situations the DM might call for some kind of skill roll. But it's worth pointing out that 1) Skills aren't always really all that applicable, some chances don't depend on the ability of the PC, and 2) Skills in 5e are really still more random than not anyway.)

 

[TheSword]

I think you mean so far as the characters know. It's pretty obvious to the players.

I don't get how people can't see the distinction here.

Bob the Paladin. I go for a walk on the Moors.
DM: Really? There's a severe thunderstorm blowing and you're wearing full plate.
Bob: Yeah. I'll take my chances.
DM: Ok. After Five minutes you get struck by lightning make a save,

Vs

Bob the Paladin. I go for a walk on the Moors.
DM: Really? There's a severe thunderstorm blowing and you're wearing full plate.
Bob: Yeah. I'll take my chances.
DM: Ok. I reckon the chance of being struck is about 1 in 20. Does that sound fair? Ok Bob you rool.
Bob: Natural 1! Damn
DM: Ok. Roll a save.

I struggle to understand how these two things are equivalent.

(Of course in many such situations the DM might call for some kind of skill roll. But it's worth pointing out that 1) Skills aren't always really all that applicable, some chances don't depend on the ability of the PC, and 2) Skills in 5e are really still more random than not anyway.)

See when I DM and am thinking of interesting encounters for them to interact with…. being struck by lightning isn’t one of them.

That’s even stepping away from the fact that the chance of being struck by lightning is so low that even putting it there as a possibility is DM fiat.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think you mean so far as the characters know. It's pretty obvious to the players.

No it isn't, unless the DM tells them what is going to happen. If it's obvious to the players the DM isn't doing it right.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

See when I DM and am thinking of interesting encounters for them to interact with…. being struck by lightning isn’t one of them.

Yeah, it's kind of pointless. It could happen in the Baldur's Gate CRPG though.

That’s even stepping away from the fact that the chance of being struck by lightning is so low that even putting it there as a possibility is DM fiat.

There was a van in the road outside our house struck by lightning yesterday.

It made a big bang, and Lucy the cat hid under the bed, but no other consequences.

 

[TheSword]

Yeah, it's kind of pointless. It could happen in the Baldur's Gate CRPG though.

There was a van in the road outside outside our house struck by lightning yesterday.

It made a big bang, and Lucy the cat hid under the bed, but no other consequences.

Yeah a 5% chance of being hit by lightning would probably mean I’d stay indoors and hide like Lucy…

… which is what we want all adventuring parties to do…

… stay indoors and hide

 

[Don Durito]

Ok I guess I've been successfully trolled.