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D&D General why did they transform the Barbarian into a Raging Monster ?

le Redoutable

Explorer
a Barbarian should behave like North American Indians, happy with Natural Beasts and always on the run, with skills like Climate Knowledge or Herbalism ...

a Raging Barbarian should be renamed a Berserker, that's it !
 

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MattW

Explorer
Well, let's think about this and consider Fantasy's most famous Barbarian (Conan, of course).

The first definition of "Barbarian" was "foreigner who doesn't speak Greek". To be strictly accurate, this was ANCIENT Greek, so it could refer to any culture from the Romans, to the Celts, to the Scythians, to the Persians. Conan was Cimmerian (a tribal culture that looks rather like the Celts).

So, IMHO, Barbarians should, by definition, be foreigners. They would have problems with accents and etiquette and lack some "civilised" skills. OTOH, they should have skills/abilities that are unusual in the "host culture". This could be anything; the Barbarian might be the Ranger, the mercenary/military specialist (or even the Warlock). They don't have to be clones of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

TLDR. The Barbarian is a role-playing tool and needs to be designed as part of the world-building. The Barbarian is something that the locals would see as very foreign
 

Rogerd1

Explorer
There is no need to be honest to turn them into a raging monster.

If you want them to be Hulk, then at least give them Warp Spasm kind of like what Slaine had.

I have a fervent hatred of Bards. A mage spends years learning magic and some muppet can do the same stuff by playing a set of bagpipes. What a load of crap!

Currently working on a 5e hack, with point buy, removing magic from all classes, such that it can be purchased at chargen.
 

aco175

Legend
All 'races' have the ability to be raging monsters, it just depends where you put the +2/+1. Just ask Chingachgook.

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Lyxen

Great Old One
It all depends how you translate "rage", it does not necessarily mean foaming at the mouth raving stupid.
 

Of course you can, german tribes were considered barbarians by the romans.
"We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
"We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."

And how is my sentence in contradiction with that policy ? Please read: "The Romans used the term barbarus for uncivilised people, opposite to Greek or Roman, and in fact, it became a common term to refer to all foreigners among Romans after Augustus age (as, among the Greeks, after the Persian wars, the Persians), including the Germanic peoples, Persians, Gauls, Phoenicians and Carthaginians." Simple historical fact that has NOTHING to do with Dungeons and Dragons and its history.
 



Vaalingrade

Legend
And how is my sentence in contradiction with that policy ? Please read: "The Romans used the term barbarus for uncivilised people, opposite to Greek or Roman, and in fact, it became a common term to refer to all foreigners among Romans after Augustus age (as, among the Greeks, after the Persian wars, the Persians), including the Germanic peoples, Persians, Gauls, Phoenicians and Carthaginians." Simple historical fact that has NOTHING to do with Dungeons and Dragons and its history.
We really don't want to go down the road of 'it's okay because the Romans did it'.

Also, 'uncivilized' meant 'not Roman'.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
Conan is the prototypical D&D barbarian. Conan went into blood rages ALL THE TIME. He also hated wizards and civilization. Hence, all the original Barbarian traits and tropes.

While I agree that it's the original reason, I probably need to read Conan again but I don't remember him flying into blood rages that often.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
We really don't want to go down the road of 'it's okay because the Romans did it'.

Again, where did I say that we had to do it all the time ? It was an historical example showing that you CAN use the term, as long as you are doing it properly.

Also, 'uncivilized' meant 'not Roman'.

No: "The Romans used the term barbarus for uncivilised people, opposite to Greek or Roman." meanings changed over the ages, but I'm pretty sure that the romans never called the greeks barbarians.
 

Undrave

Hero
To give them a distinct game mechanic. Otherwise they're just fighters.
This. If you don't want a raging barbarian you just make a Fighter with the Outlander background and maybe pick up the Healer feat for some herbalism.

The Barbarian wouldn't be a class anymore without the leg work done by 4e to add an element of primal spirits to its lore, giving us the Totem Barbarian, the Storm Barbarian, the Ancestral Barbarian, etc.
 



Vaalingrade

Legend
Again, where did I say that we had to do it all the time ? It was an historical example showing that you CAN use the term, as long as you are doing it properly.
Someone said it was bad form to use 'barbarian' for real world peoples. Your response was 'of course you can, the Romans did!'

The Roamns doing it wasn't doing it properly. IT was them being pejorative pricks. The current theory I'm aware of is that it was literally them making fun of their language.
 

And how is my sentence in contradiction with that policy ? Please read: "The Romans used the term barbarus for uncivilised people, opposite to Greek or Roman, and in fact, it became a common term to refer to all foreigners among Romans after Augustus age (as, among the Greeks, after the Persian wars, the Persians), including the Germanic peoples, Persians, Gauls, Phoenicians and Carthaginians." Simple historical fact that has NOTHING to do with Dungeons and Dragons and its history.
Your sentence seemed odd because I was talking about a modern company, and how they are moving away from using potentially contentious words. Mostly, it feels like you objected to the word "Can't" with a WELL AKSHULLY, and I'm not sure if you meant it entirely in jest or not. So I went with a more neutral (or so I hope) posting of the WotC policy to make it clear I was talking about the company, in case there was a misunderstanding.

And since that failed, I'm hoping this post makes it super clear!
 

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