Why do 3E clerics get such good press?

[stevelabny]

I'm baffled.

Using the PHB only, I have no idea why people think clerics are the most powerful class or why people constantly talk about how useful they are.

I dislike the low-level spell choices of a cleric, and I despise most of the high-level choices (especially the Symbol spells). The handful of decent mid-level choices and the ability to fight in armor don't seem all that impressive to me compared to what other classes get. Turning is very powerful against undead (too much so?) but is obviously not useful in other circumstances. And if turning works, and most/all of the undead run or explode, thats not too exciting either.

I've had limited experience playing a cleric, but just finished DMing a 20 level campaign. My gf played a cleric, and she is the type to play "defensively" and save all her spells for healing or a life-threatening emergency so that might also affect her opinion.

She and others I've played with that have played a few diffeerent classes, agree that the cleric is just the least exciting as a straight class character. (I think there are some good multi-class possibilities and enjoyed a gestalt cleric/wiz I was playing for a while)

The aren't a lot of offensive spells and those that are, don't have that certain something that makes a spell fun. The buffing spells are nice, but with many being rds or mins per level they won't always be options. The spell list I most often see includes a few Heals and Harms, a Spell Resistance for everyone, an automatic and annoying Heroes Feast every morning, and a few other set spells that barely ever change. The utility spells also seem to not be as varied as a wizards utility spells.

It seems clerics can only tailor their lists to either to control/slay undead, or fight/banish outisders. They seem to be pretty two-trick, and don't provide any versatility. Which is probably the reason I dislike them, since I prefer bard/rogue jack-of-all-trades types.

While I do think that the 3E clerics are better constructed than older editions (I have a few years experience with Basic / 1e) , I still don't think they're far enough removed from the stand-back-and-heal clerics.

So why do you (or others you know) love clerics so much?

Am I just missing all the cool things they can do? Am I missing uses for spells? Or is it just my personal play style that makes me dislike clerics?

 

[Aaron L]

You've never played a War cleric, I see. They get heavy armor, a good BAB, AND all these spells. They can fight in the front line, and, if they feel like it, blow things up, AND, if they feel like it, heal people. Jack of all trades? Well, not all trades, but tankmage is a good way to describe clerics.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Magic Weapon, Magic Armor, Bull's Strenght and other buffs, and Blade Barrier. The last D&D game I played in, my support cleric had to step up and help out a lot more in combat than I'd designed him to, but he cleaned up.

A wand of Cure Light Wounds is a big help, as you won't have to save as many slots for post-combat healing. (Of course, go sufficiently offensive and you won't have as much healing to do, anyway.)

 

[WayneLigon]

...
Using the PHB only, I have no idea why people think clerics are the most powerful class or why people constantly talk about how useful they are.

... And if turning works, and most/all of the undead run or explode, thats not too exciting either.
...The buffing spells are nice, but with many being rds or mins per level they won't always be options.

The 'destroy all lower level undead in sight unless I roll really badly' part is one of the reasons. The other was, in 3.0, those buffing spells lasted for hours per level, not minutes. So your cleric would get up in the morning and read off some scrolls. Suddenly the fighter has extra strength, the rogue has extra dex, the biggest guy is hit with that spell that makes you a Large creature plus buffs you, everyone has some more resistances, and those will last their entire waking day. And he'd still have his normal spell selections to provide on the spot buffs and heals. So that's where a lot of the talk about them being overly powerful came from, I think. Some might consider being able to use most weapons and use decent armor and use spells with no chance of spell failure to be 'overly powerful' as well.

 

[Voadam]

Power and interesting/fun are two different characteristics.

They are deliberately more powerful than the other classes to entice people to play them so that the party has healing.

You forget a number of things.

They have as many spells a day as a specialist wizard. They get every spell on their list. They are more durable than wizards with twice the size of the HD, wis as a spell casting ability core so this ups their will saves higher, good fort saves, heavy armor and shields, can fight with medium BAB and can buff to stronger than fighters with their spells.

Righteous might, divine power, etc. etc. for buffing.

Scry, detect magic, speak with dead, divination, all known for free.

And they do have blasting spells like searing light and flame strike and all the summon monsters (they can make sturdier but just as effective critter summoners as a conjuration specialist wizard).

And spontaneous healing so they don't even need to prepare their healing spells.

 

[JoeGKushner]

1. Good hit dice.
2. Fair bab.
3. Spontaneously swap spells to heal party (HUGE benefit in actual game play, especially in traditional dungeon style games)
4. Excellent armor use.
5. Simple weapons have some good options in them.
6. Turning can be the difference between life and death at times.

I've found in game play, that clerics can buff themselves to be just as powerful in melee as fighters (my current cleric is a worshipper of Tempus who wields two battle axes) and are one of the few ways that long term campaigns that don't rely on one fight with a big bad, can continue on. Nothing worse than, "Well, I'm down 60 hit points. We'll have to rest in that town for about a week or spend 4K on healing potions."

If that's not your thing, ironically enough, I just reviewed Priests of the Celestial Spheres. They share a lot with clerics, but have spell lists that go back to 2nd ed and the spheres clerics used to select. http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=review&reviewid=2517393

Let me know what you think.

 

[IronWolf]

I love to play clerics, well dwarven clerics specifically. In fact some say I am in a bit of a rut (and I probably am...) but it has been fun. I have a 13th level dwarven cleric in the RPGA's Legacy of the Green Regent campaign and a 3rd level cleric in my local game. I find I am able to play several roles regardless of the level. I can wade in when needed and be on the front line, either to deal damage or to keep the melee guys healed up. Buffing spells can be used either on me or help out one of the other melee fighters. Being able to spontaneously cast cure spells doesn't hurt. I can wear heavy armor so I don't have to worry about being hit all the time. At the higher levels I can stand back and cast some flamestrikes to keep things interesting. From what I have seen clerics do seem pretty powerful as it seems I get the best of a lot of worlds.

 

[Henry]

Steve, my name is Henry, and I'm a cleric-lover.

I love clerics because of the suite of abilities they have. In 3.0, it was sure that they were a powerful class, but the altering of certain buffing spells did tone that down somewhat. However, there are plenty of other reasons to like them:

The versatility of different domains means that your cleric can indeed be a warlike one, or lucky, or law-enforcing, etc. One thing to notice is that clerics have been more and more invading the Wizard's sphere of influence, with more damaging spells, while the wizard has been strictly restricted from healing spells.

The other thing I like is that roleplaying opportunities abound when playing a cleric. In fact, I enjoy playing clerics than possibly any other class, because of their mission, and their surety of their beliefs. It's easy to get into their mindset, and to prosecute whatever mission their deity sets for them.

I honestly believe your problems with clerics stem from your players' experiences with them and they way they treat them. A cleric should NEVER have a healing spell memorized; at worst, they should have the remove blindness/deafness on scrolls, as well as the raise dead and Restorations, and they should be spontaneous with every other heal spell. Also, they shouldn't be afraid to expend spells! That's what they're there for, and they bolster a cleric to very powerful levels when used.

 

[kenobi65]

Righteous might, divine power, etc. etc. for buffing.

OMG. In our campaign, we call the Divine Power + Righteous Might combo, "10 Feet Tall and Farting Fire."

If you've got 2 rounds to buff up, you're gonna just be a combat monster. At 9th level (the minimum to pull off this combo), you'll have 8 rounds of:
- +9 melee attack bonus
- +7 melee damage bonus (+10 if you're using a two-handed weapon) (not to mention your weapon doing more damage for going up one size category)
- +27 hit points
- DR5/evil
- although you suffer a -1 penalty to your AC for size

 

[shaylon]

Never played one but I have seen some amazing stuff, especially at higher levels. They are the healers too, so I hope you aren't peeving anyone in your group that plays a cleric. Good luck getting back from the adventure without their help.

-Shay