Why Do Clerics Have More Spells Per Day Than Wizards?

[Plane Sailing]

It's because the cleric spells are weaker... no wait...

It's because the cleric has more limitations in spells known... no wait...

It's because the cleric doesn't need the full 8 hours rest to prepare... no wait...

it's because the cleric has fewer special powers... no wait...

Where is that shrug smiley?

 

[Nikosandros]

This is also an artifact of earlier editions, when clerics had very few area effect and direct damage spells. Now, with availability to power word - kill, and fire storms, and earth reavers, holy smites, etc. The need in my mind is less than before. However, there's still the supposition that clerics are unpopular to play and so needed some bait to entice people to play them. They have so many goodies, they're not just "baited", they're a whole tackle-shop!

I agree. Mostly it looks to me as an artifact of AD&D where MU (especially at high level) got more powerful spells and the cleric had to specifically devote slots for healing spells (and those spells were weaker that they are now).

 

[pawsplay]

So... there's no mechanical reason for it? As in, no rules based decision? As in, it's an enticement?

In Basic D&D, clerics don't get spells until 2nd level, and only ever get 8th level spells. AD&D upgraded clerics to having a spells at 1st level and introduced bonus spells for a high Wisdom (wizards got no bonus spells for Int).

So basically, 3rd edition just loves the cleric.

 

[T. Foster]

In Original D&D clerics had fewer spells than magic-users, both smaller spell lists (4-6 spells per level for 5 levels vs. 8-14 spells per level for 6 levels for magic-users) and fewer spells per day (no spells at all until 2nd level, and generally slower progression thereafter -- though, oddly, they got 4th and 5th level spells before m-us -- at level 6 and 7 respectively, whereas m-us got them at levels 7 and 9). Classic (Basic, Expert, etc.) D&D retains this progression more or less (though they did at least bump the spell lists up to 8 spells/level).

1E AD&D gave the clerics more spells to choose from (but still not as many as m-us), gave them spells starting at 1st level, and gave bonus spells for high Wisdom (without giving m-us bonus spells for high Int), so suddenly instead of a 3rd level cleric having 2 1st level spells to a 3rd level mage's 3 1st and 1 2nd level spells in OD&D, in AD&D the cleric has 4 1st and 3 2nd level spells (assuming Wis 16+) to the mage's 2 1st and 1 2nd level spells. There were two reasons for this: 1) in OD&D clerics just weren't as good as mages, they were a second-class class -- AD&D's beefing up of the cleric was an attempt to make the class more attractive to players; and 2) most of the cleric's spell capability is going to be spent on healing magic to the exclusion of everything else (no trading out slots for healing in those days) so the idea (presumably) was that by giving them more slots they could take the required healing magic and still have slots for other kinds of spells. Of course, neither of those quite worked as expected -- people still didn't want to play clerics, even beefed up ones, and everybody just used all those extra slots to take even more healing spells. A better solution (at least in retrospect) would probably have been to remove the healing spells from the spell-list and make them a class ability (like the paladin's, only better) and give them reduced (more like OD&D) access to other spells.

I can't speak to later editions.

 

[victorysaber]

So let's say I gave the cleric a spells per day progression like the wizard, but in return I allowed them to use their turn undead ability to heal 1d6/level damage in a 30 ft radius. Would it be unbalanced, balanced, or... overbalanced?

 

[NilesB]

The Wizard gets more "goodies" (class abilities) than the Cleric, but they have less spells.

Wizards are assumed to be specialized, thus having the same number of spells per day as a cleric of the same level.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If you compare a cleric to a specialist wizard the spells per day are the same. Likewise favoured souls and sorcerers get the same. The divine casters extra powers are supposed to be balanced by the arcane casters getting a better spell list.

 

[Hussar]

So let's say I gave the cleric a spells per day progression like the wizard, but in return I allowed them to use their turn undead ability to heal 1d6/level damage in a 30 ft radius. Would it be unbalanced, balanced, or... overbalanced?

I think that would work. Actually, a very simple fix would be to allow clerics an (SU) ability to Cure Minor Wounds and then give them a wizard's spell progression. Thus, the cleric can heal everyone to full, at a rate of 10 hp/minute all day long, but, loses a lot of in combat healing.

Honestly though, it's the "in combat" healing that's important. It doesn't really matter how long it takes to heal out of combat, since you aren't in danger of dying. However, you REALLY need healing in combat, particularly at higher levels when creatures can drop you from full to dead in one round of full attacks.

I think you would find that even giving them a healing ability, they are still going to have a number of healing spell memorized because of this fact. Which means that the more specific spells get cast even less.

Something to remember is that, while clerics do have some combat spells, none of their spells come even close to the versatility of a wizard's. Look at alter self. What secind level cleric spell can give me a fly, climb or swim speed? Plus the abilty to breathe underwater? Plus natural attacks?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The cleric can do some miracles AND must heal his fellows....more spells to be able to do this.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Even if the cleric won't heal until after combat, they're still giving up spell energy to help their team mates.

 

[Storyteller01]

I think that would work. Actually, a very simple fix would be to allow clerics an (SU) ability to Cure Minor Wounds and then give them a wizard's spell progression. Thus, the cleric can heal everyone to full, at a rate of 10 hp/minute all day long, but, loses a lot of in combat healing.

Honestly though, it's the "in combat" healing that's important. It doesn't really matter how long it takes to heal out of combat, since you aren't in danger of dying. However, you REALLY need healing in combat, particularly at higher levels when creatures can drop you from full to dead in one round of full attacks.

I think you would find that even giving them a healing ability, they are still going to have a number of healing spell memorized because of this fact. Which means that the more specific spells get cast even less.

Something to remember is that, while clerics do have some combat spells, none of their spells come even close to the versatility of a wizard's. Look at alter self. What secind level cleric spell can give me a fly, climb or swim speed? Plus the abilty to breathe underwater? Plus natural attacks?

Have to agree with this. We houseruled that clerics roll a will save to cast spells (SO THAT DEVOTION!!!). We changed it a bit so that spontaneous healing didn't require it. It was too needed.